Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on May 21st, 2024

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

As an MP here on Parliament Hill, in Ottawa, I deal with human rights, but also with immigration.

A lot of groups lobby the MPs who handle these kinds of issues. Given the various groups that approach us, we're realizing that opposition to the Iranian regime is quite fragmented. Some support the MEK, some support the son of the shah and some support the Woman, Life, Freedom movement. Is that not a risk going forward?

I know it's not an easy question, but if you look at it from the outside, there are obviously a lot of human rights violations. We're talking about gender apartheid, but it is clear that there may not be a single opposition, or at least a united opposition, to the regime. Am I mistaken? Is that just a western view of the matter?

[Hanieh Ziaei]

You're right, Iranians are very divided politically. There are different groups, different leanings, but that's legitimate given the number of Iranians and the size of the Iranian diaspora. Not everyone agrees.

What is interesting to mention about the Iranian diaspora, whether in Europe or North America, is that there are commonalities. Today, the common thread is obviously that the legitimacy of the Islamic Republic of Iran is being thoroughly questioned. You're hearing it in what we say. We're citing the same examples. We're making the same observations and analyses about the Iranian diaspora, so our comments have a lot in common. I also think it's perfectly normal for there to be different political leanings and stripes, which are a product of the history of Iran. However, the diaspora should perhaps focus more on what it has in common rather than on political issues that can be divisive.

It's a very complex situation, and I don't have a simple answer to that type of question.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I'm sorry. It may have been a difficult question.

I know my time is up. I will send you written questions through the clerk, and I would appreciate it if you would send me written answers so that we can forward them to the analysts for the drafting of the report.

Thank you.

[Hanieh Ziaei]

I'd be happy to do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe and Professor Ziaei.

Now I invite Mr. Gord Johns to take the floor for five minutes, please.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all of the witnesses for their really important advocacy, their courage to be here today and their important testimony.

I'll start with Ms. Daemi.

You've been a strong advocate for Iranian political prisoners and against the death penalty. You've also been in imprisoned for your advocacy and your work, and you underwent severe medical neglect. Our party certainly opposes the death penalty. We're grateful for your advocacy and we're grateful that you've made it safely here to Canada.

I know you've also been an advocate for children's rights. I want to ask you a bit more about that, especially since we don't often hear about the needs of children in Iran.

I met with the Front Line Defenders—the Irish NGO that helped assist you on your journey—when I was in Dublin. They shared information with me about children. There was a seven-year-old, Helen Ahmadi, who was shot dead by the Iranian regime's repressive forces on her way home from school. Nine-year-old Kian Pirfalak was shot in the chest. A 16-year-old, Sarina Esmailzadeh, was beaten to death with a baton.

Can you tell us more about this and what we as parliamentarians can be advocating, especially to defend children?

[Atena Daemi]

[Witness spoke in Persian, interpreted as follows:]

I appreciate your question. Thank you.

In regard to how we can help Iranians in Iran in this situation, as I mentioned at the beginning, there are a few issues we have to consider in order to help Iranians.

One of them, the most important one, is about the Revolutionary Guard, which is causing lots of problems in Iran. Therefore, we have to find a way so that they belong to where they should belong, which is terrorism. The other one is people, such as the previous president of Iran, who was participating in many of these problems, the economic reasons and other reasons for the children who are in the streets in Iran right now.

The Islamic Republic is supposed to be able to answer to the international society for what they are doing in Iran. What is happening in Iran is not acceptable, and we have to try to make them answer to all of these questions.

I would like to emphasize a few issues. As you know, you mentioned Pirfalak. There were children such as Pirfalak and Karami, and there were others as well....

I think when we don't we don't have a democratic system, many people who are in power cause additional trouble.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Ms. Daemi.

Now I would like to invite Madam Vandenbeld to take the floor for four minutes.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I will split my time with Ms. Damoff and try to keep it to two minutes.

My question is for Ms. Boniadi. I want to follow up on something you said about a war on women and girls in Iran. We saw the entire world mobilize after Mahsa Jina Amini was murdered. I think this testimony today goes very far in showing that the world is still watching.

However, I'd like to go further on what you said, particularly about the horrific case of a sexual assault by the security forces. Could you comment on the extent to which rape is being used as a weapon not only against women's advocates and human rights defenders but also against political prisoners who are in prison right now? Could you comment on that?

[Nazanin Boniadi]

Thank you for this important question.

I stole the words from Amnesty International, which said the Islamic Republic “is waging a war on women.”

It recently put out a report and documents that show that the security forces and the regime have used various oppressive, malign mechanisms not only to segregate and discriminate against women but also to repress women and persecute women. That includes sexual violence. That includes beatings and floggings. It includes heavy surveillance, to the degree that it's not only cameras but people spying on women who enter businesses, for example, without a hijab. A business is shut down if the business owner allows a woman to come in without a hijab, and the woman herself can have her bank account frozen, her car confiscated and her cell phone taken away or frozen.

It really affects every aspect of a woman's life and a girl's life. Girls have been gassed in school. The list goes on and on. They are using every oppressive, repressive tool they have to ensure that they control women, their choices and the freedom for them to choose what to wear.

The compulsory hijab is just an outward symbol of women's oppression in Iran, which has really existed for 45 years, yet women are still defiantly taking to the streets without the compulsory hijab. That says a lot about their courage.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Ms. Damoff is next.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. Afshin-Jam, you mentioned that you wanted to send us a summary of a UN report, or I believe it was by the UN. I would be happy to see that.

I'm wondering if you could talk a bit about how efforts like that at the United Nations and other multilateral organizations help to raise awareness of Iran and the need for accountability.

[Nazanin Afshin-Jam]

Thank you for your question.

Definitely, this particular one is extremely important. A special session was called on Iran after the whole world saw the atrocities taking place when Mahsa Jina Amini died. They held this special session and called for a report. After a year, they came out with the first part of a report. Now they've extended the mission for a second year, so we'll have an even more comprehensive report by next year.

It's significant because the utmost, highest human rights body on the planet, the UN Human Rights Council, has compiled this documentation into a 500-page report. The most important part, as I have already said, is that it concluded that these amount to crimes against humanity.

What we recommended while we were at the United Nations was for the Human Rights Council to elevate this report and refer it to the Security Council, hoping that it will then be referred to the International Criminal Court. In that element, we're hoping that at some point, those responsible for crimes against humanity will be prosecuted at an international tribunal. Short of that, just the recognition that this regime is one of the most abusive on the planet toward human rights and that there has to be a cost enacted for these human rights abuses....

Mr. Gord Johns asked about children. The Islamic Republic of Iran—

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Can you wrap it up, please? We are out of time.

[Nazanin Afshin-Jam]

Yes.

When it comes to child executions, there are over 160 children on death row, and I think the way a country treats its most vulnerable is a testament to the entire.... Just in that example alone, we need to enact a cost, and that means thinking twice about shaking the hands of these regime officials or giving your condolences for the—

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Ms. Afshin‑Jam.

Professor Ziaei, I see you want to say something. Please be quick, because we're running out of time.

[Hanieh Ziaei]

I would just like to add to the debate that vocabulary is an issue that arises among all Iran observers. I suggest that the subcommittee look into that, since you're asking questions along those lines. The idea would be to focus on terms such as “femicide” and “infanticide”. Others have used the word “genocide”, but what is the primary definition of “genocide”? It says here “acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group”.

We've been hearing accounts for some time that the repression is very targeted. Schoolgirls and the schools they attend have been targeted. They're being attacked in places that are important to them. Students and universities are being attacked. A whole slew of the victims have been minors. We are talking about children here. I therefore ask the subcommittee to urge Canada to stand out from the countries that sometimes shy away from terms that may sound daunting, but that are part of the social reality. We mentioned—

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Professor Ziaei.

Mr. Sobhani, the floor is yours.

Be quick, please.

[Arash Sobhani]

There was a question about how putting IRGC on a terrorist list can help.

I was going through the Public Safety Canada website, and there are lists of all these organizations that are listed as terrorists. If you go through that list, you see that a good portion of them, although not most of them, get training and money from the IRGC. If you put those guys on the list, why not go after the main guys?

Another thing—

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you. I am sorry.

Mr. Genuis, you have the floor for four minutes, please.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Sobhani, the point you just made is so important. Canada already lists so many of the subsidiaries as terrorist organizations. Why haven't we listed the mother ship as a terrorist organization?

I think that Ms. Boniadi's calls to action in her opening statement—the designation of the IRGC as a terrorist organization, the use of universal jurisdiction by Canada, and Canadian government support for a gender apartheid designation—are three very strong and important calls to action. I do want to reiterate my support for all three of those. I see a lot of heads nodding.

I want to add as well that a bill I have a bill before Parliament, Bill C-350, includes IRGC listing, but it would also allow victims of torture and extrajudicial killing to sue the Iranian regime in Canadian courts.

I want to ask.... Maybe this is a more difficult question, but I think it's important to get some feedback.

What we desire is to defend the human rights of the Iranian people and protect Canada from this regime. We also want to see an end to this regime and the emergence of a free, democratic Iran that responds to the aspirations of everyone here. That would seem to require the presentation of a coherent political alternative to the current regime. We know that there are many people talking about this, but there's also a lot of division among different kinds of proposals for that political alternative.

I would welcome comments from anyone who wants to weigh in on the chances of presenting a unified political alternative to the current regime and what role that would play in the freedom struggle.

I see Ms. Boniadi and then Ms. Afshin-Jam. I probably have about two minutes between the two of you.

[Nazanin Boniadi]

I'll be succinct.

Collectively, many of us here have been parts of an effort to unify the opposition, but let's remember, as I said in my remarks, that the Islamic Republic's cyber-army and the Islamic Republic are invested in breaking us apart, which is why I talked about the importance of a cohesive international policy on Iran, as well as for the opposition—those who want democracy for Iran—to set aside any differences and focus on a free Iran.

When people come in to lobby you and when they talk to you about a free Iran, I would encourage Canadian lawmakers to concentrate on how inclusive they are. If they are only advocating for a specific ideology, for a specific outcome, then they are not representative of.... Iran is not a monolith, as you know. Yes, the vast majority, I would say, want democracy, but that looks very different to different people.

Therefore, if a group that is lobbying you is saying, “It's our way or the highway, and we're not going to include various other voices,” I would encourage you to take that into account and to see other people and include other voices.

Voices must unite for democracy, period.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

You have one minute, Ms. Afshin-Jam.

[Nazanin Afshin-Jam]

I'd like to echo what Ms. Boniadi was talking about.

Yes, it appears that we're quite divided, but I think parliamentarians often hear the loud voices of certain extremists. I want you to be hopeful that there is the silent majority. There are the middle people who are united, who want freedom, democracy and human rights in Iran. Actually, all of us, extreme or not, want an end to the regime. The only choice will be at the ballot box in a free and democratic Iran, for the Iranian people to decide.

So that you're aware, I am facilitating a network of 90 Iranian diaspora groups. We work very well together on campaigns and projects and we're unified in our aim to see this democratic system. If you need a unified voice, we can deliver them to you in Parliament.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, you have the floor for four minutes.