Evidence of meeting #52 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was conflict.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Oleksandra Matviichuk  Chair, Center for Civil Liberties
Beatrice Lau  Legal Adviser, Doctors Without Borders
Santiago Stocker  Program Director for Sudan, International Republican Institute
Nazik Kabalo  Director, Sudanese Women Rights Action

4:20 p.m.

Chair, Center for Civil Liberties

Oleksandra Matviichuk

Thank you very much for this question and for mentioning my dearest friend Victoria Amelina. She was killed by a Russian rocket last year in Kramatorsk. She is a great example of a Ukrainian writer who started to document Russian war crimes. She knew that with her efforts, being human, she couldn't stop this war, but without her efforts, nothing can be stopped.

When we speak about a special tribunal, we have to describe the problem. The problem is that no international court can prosecute Putin and those around him for the crime of aggression. That is why we have to establish a special tribunal with the aim of preventing wars in the future. It's a signal to the future that if you start a war, regardless of whether you win or lose, you will be punished. Not only would it provide legal measures for wars, but it would make wars senseless.

It would be important to create this special tribunal on the premises of international organizations, because we can imagine Putin creating his own tribunal in white Venezuela, Iran, Nicaragua, Syria or Eritrea. That's why we're working on two tracks: either to create such a special tribunal on the premises of the UN, which would mean we'd need a majority of votes, which is difficult, or create this special tribunal on the premises of regional international organizations like the Council of Europe.

4:20 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

If I understand the process correctly, it makes sense for this tribunal to be set up immediately. We shouldn't wait until the end of the war to set it up. Have I got that right?

4:20 p.m.

Chair, Center for Civil Liberties

Oleksandra Matviichuk

Yes, because the problem is that we still look at the world through the lens of the Nuremberg trials, where Nazi war criminals were tried only after the Nazi regime had collapsed. We live in a new century. Justice shouldn't be dependent on the magnitude of the Putin regime's power. This means we cannot wait. We must establish a special tribunal now and hold Putin and other criminals accountable.

4:20 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

Do I have any time left, Mr. Chair?

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury

You have one and a half minutes.

4:20 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

Excellent.

How can we, as Canadian and Quebec parliamentarians, help you in your efforts to create this tribunal, Ms. Matviichuk? I understand that the international community has a role to play. Should Canada have a greater role? Should it do something similar to what other countries are doing?

I'd like your thoughts on that.

4:20 p.m.

Chair, Center for Civil Liberties

Oleksandra Matviichuk

Canada can play a leading role. We live in a new world. We still look at the world through the lens of states and interstate organizations, but I think people have much more power than they could even imagine. That's why people in Canada, and you as a Parliament, can create a demand for justice.

What I see at the moment is that politicians from different countries think that justice is secondary. They don't understand that justice is preconditioned to peace in our part of the world, where Russia for decades has used war as a tool to achieve geopolitical interests and for decades has used war crimes as the method to win wars.

4:25 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

You also—

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury

Thank you very much.

4:25 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

Thank you very much.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury

Mr. Johns, you have the floor for five minutes, please.

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Thank you so much, Ms. Matviichuk, for being here and for your courage, strength and leadership through this terrible tragedy. We had Darka Harnyk, a young, strong Ukrainian woman intern in my office. She helped provide us with some insight into the courage of Ukrainian women through this crisis.

I want to start with children. We have heard that 19,500 Ukrainian children have been abducted and taken to Russia. What can Canada do to help return the abducted Ukrainian children in this war against Ukraine?

4:25 p.m.

Chair, Center for Civil Liberties

Oleksandra Matviichuk

Canada is a leader of the international coalition for the return of Ukrainian children, which means that Canada can initiate a lot of actions that can be taken simultaneously by states that are members of this international coalition. For example, we can speak about sanctions. We have to demonstrate that people who are involved in the genocidal policy of taking Ukrainian children to Russia and bringing them up as Russians will be punished. Canada can also address to the deputy secretary-general of the United Nations, who is responsible for children in war, a request to provide the status of “abducted child” to Ukrainian children in Russia until the moment their whereabouts and destiny are identified and solved. Canada can do a lot.

I will focus on something else that Canada can provide for children in Ukraine. Because the children are going through the experience of war, a very horrible experience, they need a lot of psychological help. We now have a lack of mental health specialists in Ukraine to provide this help.

Just to understand the circumstances, I will tell you the story of one Ukrainian child. It's the story of a 10-year-old boy, Ilya, from Mariupol. When the Russians tried to seize the city, they didn't allow the International Committee of the Red Cross to evacuate civilians. Hence, Ilya and his mother hid from Russian shelling in the basement of their building. They melted snow to have water. They made fires to cook at least some food. When supplies ran out, they were forced to go out, and suddenly there was Russian shelling. Ilya's mother was injured in her head, and the boy's leg was torn. With a lot of strength, his mother took her son to a friend's apartment.

There was no medical assistance. Prior to this, the Russians had destroyed hospitals and the entire medical infrastructure in Mariupol. In this friend's apartment, Ilya and his mother were lying on the couch and hugging each other. They were lying like this for several hours. Ilya told my colleague that his mother died, frozen right in his arms.

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

I'm very sorry to hear that story.

I know that you met with the Prime Minister yesterday. Canada is part of the international coalition. Our understanding is that the Prime Minister intends to raise this at the upcoming G7 meetings.

What would you like the ask to look like, especially with mental health supports? Are you looking for mental health teams coming from the G7 and the international community to support children in Ukraine?

4:25 p.m.

Chair, Center for Civil Liberties

Oleksandra Matviichuk

I think we have to find sustainable solutions. That means it's probably time to help Ukraine open a new program in universities to educate new mental health specialists in Ukraine. We don't know for how long we will need such specialists. It can't be just temporal assistance.

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

There are a lot of Ukrainians abroad—in Canada, for example—with the expectation that they will return and help rebuild Ukraine at the end of this war. Could Canada, Canadians and other countries help with training Ukrainians so they are equipped to return home at the end of this conflict, which hopefully happens?

4:30 p.m.

Chair, Center for Civil Liberties

Oleksandra Matviichuk

We don't know if we're at the end of the war, in the middle of the war or at the beginning of the war. This means that we have no luxury to postpone a lot of things until after the war period. We have to start the recovery now to return breath to the local community and provide people the opportunity to return home.

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Thank you.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury

On behalf of the committee, Madam, I would like to thank you for your presence and for the great job you're doing as a human rights lawyer. I'll repeat again that your Nobel Prize is well deserved.

4:30 p.m.

Chair, Center for Civil Liberties

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury

It has been a great pleasure for the committee to welcome you. Many thanks.

The meeting is suspended.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury

Welcome back everyone. We are now back in session.

The subcommittee will now start its study on the current situation in Sudan.

In accordance with the committee's routine motion concerning connection tests for witnesses, I'm happy to inform the subcommittee all the witnesses completed the required connection tests prior to the meeting.

I'd now like to welcome our witnesses, who are joining us by video conference. We have Ms. Beatrice Lau, legal advisor to Doctors Without Borders, as well as Mr. Santiago Stocker, program director for Sudan with the International Republican Institute.

Welcome to you both.

Each witness will have five minutes for their opening remarks. Then we will open it up to questions.

Ms. Lau, I invite you to begin your opening remarks. You have five minutes.

June 4th, 2024 / 4:40 p.m.

Beatrice Lau Legal Adviser, Doctors Without Borders

Thank you for the opportunity to address you today.

This year, between January and April, I was in Sudan with Doctors Without Borders, or MSF. We currently provide medical assistance in nine states across Sudan. Speaking from my experience on the ground, it is not an exaggeration to describe Sudan as being ensnared in a perfect storm of conflict, displacement, malnutrition and ethnic- and gender-based violence.

The country's health system is on the brink of a total collapse, with 70% to 80% of health facilities no longer operational. A real threat of disease outbreaks looms, as the national immunization program has been disrupted since the conflict began. Our teams administered the last vials of vaccines weeks ago, and no new supplies have reached the areas where they are critically needed.

Despite the magnitude of this humanitarian crisis, we witness an alarming absence of other humanitarian actors in the areas where we work. This may be partly due to security concerns amid ongoing violent fighting in certain parts of the country, with aid workers being killed, injured and harassed, and humanitarian supplies being looted. The lack of humanitarian response is also driven by gross underfunding. Over a month ago, at the international humanitarian conference for Sudan in Paris, numerous countries pledged support, including Canada, which committed $132 million. Notwithstanding these pledges, the Sudan humanitarian response plan for this year remains only 16% funded.

In my intervention today, I would like to focus on one specific issue: the lack of humanitarian access.

As we speak, it is estimated that 11 million people—that is, nearly half of those in need of aid—are effectively denied assistance as a result of the systematic obstruction of cross-line movements by both parties to the conflict and the restrictions of cross-border operations imposed by the Government of Sudan. Since the country succumbed to war, cross-border operations from Chad have been the only means of accessing the Darfur region. Being present in Darfur, MSF confirms that there are no other viable options to reach that part of the country.

In that regard, the closure of the Adré border crossing by the Government of Sudan in February has drastically limited the assistance that can now reach Darfur. This is particularly concerning when the majority of the 4.9 million people whom the UN has assessed to be just one step away from famine are found in the Darfur region and the window to scale up response to avert the onset of famine is quickly shrinking.

The recent military escalation in and around El Fasher in north Darfur has rendered cross-border operations via the Tine crossing—the only crossing from Chad that the Government of Sudan has consented to after February—impossible. Additionally, MSF and other aid actors continue to face systematic obstructions and deliberate denials of safe humanitarian passage by both parties to the conflict. Since the end of September, our requests to send personnel or medical supplies across conflict lines have been repeatedly denied.

The persistent lack of authorizations has recently forced MSF to suspend work and withdraw staff from the Madani Teaching Hospital, which is the only functional hospital in the capital of the state of Al Jazirah. Before our suspension, MSF had been the only international NGO providing medical humanitarian assistance in Madani.

To prevent the crisis from further spiralling into a catastrophe, interventions at all levels are needed and are needed now. There is no time to lose. We therefore respectfully urge the Canadian government to do two things.

First, we ask that you reinforce your diplomatic efforts to demand that parties to the conflict uphold their obligations under international humanitarian law and their commitment to the Jeddah declaration. Specifically, they should immediately cease all acts denying, obstructing and interfering with or politicizing humanitarian action and facilitate unimpeded humanitarian access, including through all possible cross-lines and cross-border routes, to expedite aid. They must also protect civilians from violence and protect medical and humanitarian missions from attacks.

Second, consider increasing your funding commitment or making the funding available in a flexible and innovative way. We should not forget that there is a very vibrant civil society in Sudan, and some Sudanese organizations and volunteer networks are responding to needs where international actors cannot reach.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury

Thank you. That was exactly five minutes.

I will now give the floor to Mr. Stocker, who is the program director for Sudan with the International Republican Institute.

Mr. Stocker, welcome. You have five minutes.

4:45 p.m.

Santiago Stocker Program Director for Sudan, International Republican Institute

Thank you, honourable members of Parliament. I appreciate the opportunity to share perspectives on the issue of Sudan and to elevate the voices of our Sudanese partners, who have suffered greatly and are desperate to be heard.

There is no greater expression of democratic self-determination than the popular overthrow of a dictator. That is what happened in Sudan in 2019, creating hope that Sudan would enter the democratic age. However, a tortured transition ensued, which ultimately resulted in a military coup in 2021 orchestrated by the same parties that plunged Sudan into civil war. The devastation caused by this war is further compounded by the lost opportunity for democratic transition that preceded it.

The speed and scale of Sudan's collapse are breathtaking. Sudan now has roughly 8.8 million people displaced and some 25 million requiring humanitarian assistance. Sudan is now the largest conflict displacement crisis in the world and one of the largest in recent history. As of May 24, the Armed Conflict Location and Event Data project has documented more than 17,000 direct conflict fatalities, with more than 30,000 injured, according to the IRC. These numbers are conservative and do not include deaths from starvation, injuries or disease, and likely undercount deaths from multiple large-scale massacres of civilians by the RSF and allied militias in Darfur. Even by these conservative numbers, the war in Sudan is the deadliest war on the African continent.

The war combines the worst elements of both conventional and unconventional warfare. The heavy use of weapons, including artillery, mortars, drones and air strikes, has caused major damage to populated areas and civilian infrastructure. At the same time, the large-scale mobilization of ethnic and religious forces has unleashed sectarian violence and rampant criminality on the civilian population.

A continued war poses significant risks to the region and, by extension, to U.S. and Canadian interests. Spillover of the conflict into neighbouring states is a growing possibility. The stability of the Red Sea, already in jeopardy, will be further threatened, and the risk of violent extremism is growing. Islamist militias are already mobilized and fighting with the SAF. These militias, with their own agendas and extremist ideology, are dangerous veto players that could derail a future peace process. Sudan checks the boxes of many of the factors empirically shown to increase risks of violent extremism.

With this backdrop, let me touch briefly on what IRI has been doing in Sudan.

At IRI, we are trying to set the conditions for Sudan such that the aspirations of the people are addressed through legitimate mechanisms. Since 2019, we have been working to strengthen civilian elements to participate in the transition process. IRI supported the establishment of women and youth political party platforms, where members from different political parties and former armed movements came together to discuss avenues for improving the inclusion of women and youth within internal party processes and as part of the political transition process.

With the Taqaddum coalition, we have been supporting members through training and advocacy and through assistance with scenario planning and negotiations. We also work with the resistance committees, which played a key role in the overthrow of al-Bashir in 2019, to provide the tools and strategies needed to organize and meaningfully engage in political processes and advocacy. In partnership with Internews, we have been supporting journalists and media houses to report on the war and human rights violations. We are grateful to have funding from USAID and the U.S. State Department to carry out these activities.

I note that these critically important civil society actors are facing significant threats both inside and outside Sudan. Many civil society stakeholders were prevented from leaving Sudan to attend the recent Taqaddum founding conference in Addis Ababa. Members of Taqaddum resistance committees and other civil society organizations were ruthlessly targeted by both SAF and RSF forces within Sudan. The international community must do more to protect these actors, both inside and outside Sudan.

Let me turn next to the issue of ceasefire and negotiations. A ceasefire is urgently needed. While the RSF has repeatedly agreed to a ceasefire in principle, the SAF has rebuffed calls for a ceasefire and vows to fight until victory. Belligerents are unlikely to reach a ceasefire unless both sides view the cost of fighting to be higher than the cost of a ceasefire.

The international community can increase punitive measures, including sanctions, against SAF and RSF leadership, international arms suppliers and key members of the SAF's governing coalition, including businesses and hardline religious groups that are members of the coalition. Civilian forces are rarely included in direct negotiations, yet we know historically that ceasefires in Africa that include a timeline for negotiations or advance a peace process are twice as likely to be durable compared to ceasefires that are delinked from substantive negotiations.