Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on June 4th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Ms. Kabalo.

Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe for seven minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses appearing before us today.

Mr. Stocker, on November 14, 2023, the UN Under-Secretary-General, who is also Special Adviser on the Prevention of Genocide, issued a statement in which she expressed alarm at the violence in Darfur. According to the statement, the risk of genocide and related crimes is very high. More recently, in April 2024, the Raoul Wallenberg Centre for Human Rights raised the same fears.

What is your opinion of that statement and those fears about the risk of genocide or related crimes being committed in Darfur?

[Santiago Stocker]

The legal determination I will leave to others. What I will say is that it is well documented that there has been ethnic cleansing of various ethnic groups on a significant level in Darfur. Some of the same groups were targeted in prior genocides. The killings are happening and the risk of genocide is significant.

With El Fasher being under siege—I think it has two million or three million people now, with some 800,000 of them displaced—that is a significant risk. We've seen communities and ethnic minorities in and around El Fasher, like the Zaghawa communities and others, recently targeted by the RSF. Other groups like the Masalit and Fur have been targeted because of their ethnic identities by the RSF and their Arab militia allied forces.

There's no doubt that these killings are happening and that they are, in many respects, conducted on the basis of ethnicity. The potential is there for these killings to happen on a much larger scale. That's why it's critically important right now that we look at El Fasher, which is under siege and has, as I said, almost three million people. There are some very catastrophic scenarios that could play out. This is another reason to elevate this issue to the international community's attention.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Stocker.

Ms. Lau, my next question is for you, since your organization has extensive expertise in the area of armed conflict around the world.

The international community doesn't appear to be paying any attention to the conflict in Sudan. This conflict seems to be flying under the radar and the international community seems to have no interest in what is happening in Sudan.

Do you share that observation? If so, how do you explain this lack of interest?

[Beatrice Lau]

From our experience, indeed it has been quite difficult to raise the situation in Sudan to get the attention of donor countries and the international community so they see all the problems, such as malnutrition, the collapse of health facilities and the health system, and the threat of the outbreak of diseases. It's very difficult to get this message out and get the attention needed for funding so that, for example, the humanitarian actors on the ground can deliver the much-needed humanitarian response. As I alluded to in my opening remarks, that's partly because of the security concern. However, in areas that are far away from the front line, the conflict line, and in quite easily and logistically accessible areas—for example, in the White Nile state—we're also not seeing any international actors on the ground. When cross-border operations were possible, before the Government of Sudan decided to close down the border crossing in February, UN agencies had very limited cross-border operations as well.

This may be because of what we have seen on the ground, which is that the UN has, since last year in April, put on Sudan the security level status of “evacuation”. That implies that all UN agencies and possibly their implementing partners are not able to be in Sudan, except in the east part, in Port Sudan. They cannot stay overnight. That also explains why a very limited presence or humanitarian response has been possible on the ground.

Funding, security and perhaps some self-imposed restrictions explain the lack of response.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I don't have much time left, but I'd like to speak to you, Ms. Kabalo.

Could you elaborate on the possible consequences of this lack of interest by the international community in this conflict? I'm thinking, in particular, of the possibility of a cease in hostilities, impunity for presumed atrocities committed and humanitarian intervention. What are the consequences of the international community's lack of interest in the current conflict in Sudan?

[Nazik Kabalo]

Just before this session, you were discussing Ukraine. There is no comparison in the interest of the international community between what's happening in Ukraine, a two-year-old war, and what's happening in Sudan and, similarly, Gaza. Sudan is literally buried under Gaza and Ukraine in the agendas of the international community. This needs to change quickly. Just last night, our vice-president of the Transitional Sovereign Council flew to Russia to make a deal to open our port to Russia, probably so they can have a military base there.

I think the neglect by the international community of what's happening in Sudan is, strategically and for global security, something the international community could pay a high price for. It's similar to the neglect of other situations in western Africa and other countries in Africa. The international community and the western world need to open their eyes very wide, because the war happening right now in Sudan is a proxy war. There's no doubt about that. Russia, the UAE and Iran are involved. This is not just a war of the Sudanese people. When we discuss it as a Sudanese people war, we are neglecting those factors, because without the weapons, money and resources provided to both fighting parties, this war would have never continued.

I humbly ask you to take action to stop where this war is being funded from.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Madam Kabalo.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you to all the witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Now I'll invite Mr. Johns to take the floor for seven minutes, please.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you all for your really important testimony in this terrible humanitarian crisis and conflict.

It's clear that women and girls are suffering immensely in this crisis, and we've heard horrific reports of weaponized sexual violence and the impacts of perinatal malnutrition.

Ms. Kabalo, maybe you can share with us the most critical service and aid gaps for women and girls in Sudan. Where do international funds and efforts need to go first?

[Nazik Kabalo]

I have been working on research for the last eight months about the sexual violence taking place in Sudan, and the findings we have are heartbreaking. Sexual violence in Sudan is used not just as a weapon, but also as part of the loot of the war. For the troops working on the ground in areas like Khartoum and Al Jazirah, one of the incentives to fight is raping women. This is how women and their bodies are being treated—as part of the fighting zones themselves.

Right now, we mostly need support for local women's organizations and international organizations working to protect and support survivors of gender-based violence. We don't even have rape kits in Sudan. The major problem we are facing at this moment is the pregnancy of rape victims and the children being born out of rape, who have no one to care for them. This is a major issue right now.

Rape kits, psychological support and funding for the evacuation of victims from fighting areas are the main issues. Local women's groups on the ground that are trying to support survivors are also under attack, especially by the SAF in Port Sudan and the RSF in their control areas.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Ms. Kabalo, thank you for sharing the horrific things happening on the ground.

Can you share more of what the world needs to know about what is happening? How critical is the timing? What are we not hearing enough about that's happening in this conflict?

[Nazik Kabalo]

One of the main issues for Sudan right now—and why you are not hearing about it—is that we have been living in a communication blackout in 70% to 80% of the country for the last four months. Before that, the communication infrastructure in the country was weakened by the deliberate destruction of fighting parties. In addition, the SAF government in Sudan has revived former regime security laws that prevented human rights defenders from documenting violations on the ground. Even carrying your smart phone in Sudan could get you killed. It's also part of the loot of the war.

People in Sudan are now living in an era of writing letters again. We are completely disconnected from the world. Even to verify that someone has died in one of the cities in Sudan, you have to wait seven to 10 days. That's to make sure your father, mother or uncle is confirmed dead. These are some of the main issues we are having now.

Funding and support to help rebuild communication infrastructure in Sudan and finding other solutions like using satellite communication—which is what happened in Ukraine—are needed to help humanitarian actors on the ground. Also needed is for human rights defenders to document, for the media to report and for the world to take action.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Ms. Kabalo just talked about the impacts of the arms trade on Sudan, specifically the role that Russia, China and Iran are playing in arming the warring parties.

Mr. Stocker, maybe you can talk about what Canada should be doing to counter that. What should the international community be doing? Tell us what Canada is helping with and not helping with enough and what Canada could be doing more of in the diplomatic role that we could play.

[Santiago Stocker]

First is raising the cost on those who are supplying weapons to the belligerents. As I mentioned, in many respects, this is a conventional conflict. It's causing huge devastation to the civilian population and to infrastructure. It's well known who is supplying the weapons, but there has been little cost imposed on these actors. Whatever Canada can do vis-à-vis Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Egypt to engage and use the leverage that Canada and others in the international community have for imposing costs must be done.

The appointment of a special representative would be helpful. We've seen the U.S. special envoy. His appointment has been productive, and it's demonstrated increased interest from the U.S. He's had a very robust series of engagements, so that would be helpful.

Whatever costs can be imposed on those supplying arms externally, as well as on the belligerents themselves and all of the businesses and organizations supporting them.... There have been sanctions on a handful of entities and a handful of individuals, but they've fallen far short of what would be a robust effort.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you so much.

Ms. Lau, Doctors Without Borders provided a very good briefing. It's terrible what we're reading and hearing—the stats and the impact of this conflict and war. Is there anything in your briefing you wanted to underscore that you haven't had a chance to highlight that we should be highlighting when bringing forward our concerns to the Government of Canada?

[Beatrice Lau]

As I've highlighted, mainly it's about humanitarian access. That needs more effort from the diplomatic community to put pressure on both parties to the conflict to unblock humanitarian access. Without that, even if there is funding and even if there are more actors who can deliver assistance, the assistance will not be able to reach the population.

The other side is about funding. I completely agree with Ms. Kabalo, and I alluded to it in my opening remarks. Increasing funding, of course, is what is really needed considering that only 16% of the humanitarian response plan is being funded. Also, we need to explore a non-traditional way or more creative way, innovative way, of getting funds to those who can deliver the response, like the volunteer network and maybe some of the civil societies that can respond to the needs on the ground right now.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, all.

I want to thank the witnesses for their testimony and participation in our important study.

Is it the will of the committee to adjourn the meeting?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

The meeting is adjourned. All the best.