Evidence of meeting #6 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was news.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Maria Ressa  Chief Executive Officer and President, Rappler
Nazanin Boniadi  Actress and Ambassador, Amnesty International United Kingdom, As an Individual
Matthew Leung  Former Reporter, Ming Pao Daily, Hong Kong, As an Individual
Rachel Pulfer  Executive Director, Journalists for Human Rights
Judith Abitan  Executive Director, Raoul Wallenberg Centre for Human Rights
Rachael Kay  Deputy Executive Director, IFEX
Mark Clifford  President, The Committee for Freedom in Hong Kong

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi

Good evening, everyone.

Welcome to meeting number six of the Subcommittee on International Human Rights.

Today we'll be continuing our study of human rights in repressive states.

I'll provide everyone present here with a quick reminder to please follow the recommendations of the public health authorities, as well as the directives of the Board of Internal Economy, to remain healthy and safe.

As for everyone who is joining us virtually, you should know that the translation function can be found at the bottom of your screen where the globe icon is.

We're truly honoured today to welcome a stellar lineup of panellists.

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON

Mr. Chair, on a point of order before you begin, I just wanted to advise the committee and the witnesses that I am not feeling well. I am well enough to be at the meeting. I am isolated due to testing positive for COVID on Saturday. However, I am probably going to be turning my camera off during the meeting.

I wanted the witnesses to know this because I will be listening. I'm going to be taking notes, but I don't want it to be seen as any disrespect if my camera is off. I find that I go a little while and then I have to wrap myself up like a burrito and lie on the couch. Even if I'm wrapped up like a burrito, I am going to be listening intensely to really important witnesses that I care a lot about.

I just wanted to let you know that I put a tie on just to be able to say that.

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi

Thank you, Mr. Oliphant.

We'll return to introducing our stellar panellists for today.

First, we have a panel of three. This particular panel comprises three experts. Our first one is Nobel laureate Maria Ressa, who is well known to you all. She is currently the chief executive officer and president of Rappler. Then we have Ms. Nazanin Boniadi, renowned actress and ambassador for Amnesty International United Kingdom. Lastly, we have Mr. Matthew Leung, former reporter with the Ming Pao Daily of Hong Kong. I'm terribly sorry about all the technical challenges there, Mr. Leung.

Panellists, you will each have five minutes for your opening remarks. Approximately 30 seconds before you reach that, I will put up a sign. Obviously, if you go a few seconds over, that's perfectly fine. After you do your opening remarks, the members will be asking you questions.

Ms. Ressa, the floor is yours. You have five minutes for your opening remarks.

6:35 p.m.

Maria Ressa Chief Executive Officer and President, Rappler

Thank you so much for inviting me to speak to you today.

I'd like to share three points. The first is what we're living through in the Philippines as journalists and human rights defenders. The second is how technology for profit has become an insidious tool for tyranny globally. The third is what we're doing to help safeguard our election, which is happening in exactly 42 days in the Philippines right now—it's 41 days. They're just waking up. I would call this an “Avengers, assemble” moment in our nation's battle for facts.

I've been a journalist for more than 36 years. In 2016, we came under intense online attack, because we exposed the brutal drug war and the propaganda machine that was attacking journalists, news organizations, human rights defenders and opposition politicians. The weaponization of social media was followed by lawfare, twisting the law to breaking points to target those same groups. In 2018, the Philippine government tried to revoke Rappler's licence to operate. While we continue to fight it legally, within four months, we lost 49% of our advertising revenue.

In less than two years, my government filed 10 arrest warrants against me. In order to travel, I have to ask permission from the courts. Sometimes I get it, sometimes I don't. One of the times my travel was denied at the last minute was when my aging parents, who were both ill, had asked me to come to the United States because my mom was having an operation.

In past three months, we've had 22 new complaints—potential new legal cases—filed against us. Last Friday, we received eight in one day. Eight subpoenas is a record for us. We must be doing something right, because not only did a sitting cabinet secretary sue seven news organizations, including Rappler, but there is a petition at the Supreme Court by the solicitor general alleging unfounded conspiracy theories against us. The majority of these complaints are connected to President Duterte's pastor, Apollo Quiboloy, who is wanted by the FBI. His company is leading the attack against journalists and human rights activists and was recently awarded a television franchise. Last week, I testified in court in a case where the alleged tax we owed—200,000 pesos—was far less than the 1.2 million pesos I had already posted in that court in bail and bonds to stay free and working.

All told, I could go to jail for the rest of my life because I refuse to stop doing my job as a journalist. However, I'm lucky. Remember Senator Leila de Lima, former justice secretary and head of the Commission on Human Rights? Last month, she began her sixth year in prison. Amnesty International calls her “a prisoner of conscience”.

Remember young journalist, Frenchie Mae Cumpio? She spent her last two birthdays in prison.

Remember former colleague, Jess Malabanan? He was killed by a bullet to the head. He worked on the Reuters' drug wars series that won a Pulitzer Prize.

Remember ABS-CBN, the largest broadcaster in the Philippines? It was a newsroom I headed for six years. In 2020, it lost its franchise to operate. The last time that happened was when Ferdinand Marcos declared martial law in 1972.

For the people who defend us, there are also costs. More lawyers have been killed than journalists under the Duterte administration, and the toll for human rights activists as of August last year hit over 420 dead. Last year, on March 7, nine trade union leaders and human rights activists were killed in simultaneous morning police raids, which we now call “Bloody Sunday”. The numbers of those killed in our brutal drug war are from the thousands to tens of thousands. That's the first casualty in my nation's battle for facts.

That brings us to my second point, of how technology has degraded facts and broken our societies. Like the age of industrialization, there's a new economic model that brought new harms, a model Shoshana Zuboff called “surveillance capitalism”. This is when our atomized personal experiences are collected by machine learning and organized by artificial intelligence extracting our lives for outsized corporate gain. Highly profitable microtargeting operations are engineered to structurally undermine human will, creating a behaviour modification system in which we are Pavlov's dogs, experimented on in real time with disastrous consequences.

This is happening to you and to all of us around the world. These engagement-based metrics of American tech companies mean that the incentive structure of the algorithms, which is really just their opinion in code, implemented at a scale we could never have imagined is insidiously shaping our future by encouraging the worst of human behaviour.

Studies have shown that lies laced with anger and hate spread faster and further than facts. The next few sentences I have said in every speech in the last six years.

Without facts, you can't have truth. Without truth, you can't have trust. Without these, we have no shared reality, no rule of law and no democracy.

What are we going to do?

We can't solve the global existential problems if we don't win the battle for facts, and we cannot have integrity of elections if we don't have integrity of facts.

In 42 days, the Philippines will vote, in an existential moment for our democracy. The front-runner for president is Ferdinand Marcos, Junior. His family was ousted by a people-powered revolt 36 years ago. He's back partly because history was revised in plain view with networks of disinformation, which we at Rappler exposed, releasing the data publicly.

How do we find a solution to deal with the viral speed of lies and the preferential distribution of anger and hate?

We created a four-layer pyramid: what we call #FactsFirstPH. I submitted a copy for you who are listening today. It begins with our communities, with individuals reporting lies to our tip lines. That's the data layer that unites the pyramid. For the first time, at least 16 news groups are working together in that foundational layer.

Once the fact checks are done, it moves to the mesh layer: civil society groups, NGOs, schools, business groups, the church and religious groups joining together to mount their own campaigns for facts, creating a mesh of distribution.

That data then travels to the third layer—the disinformation research groups, finally working together—which releases weekly research to tell Filipinos exactly how we're being manipulated and by whom.

Finally, the fourth layer, that has long been needed, is the law. Legal groups across the spectrum focus on filing tactical and strategic litigation. As news groups in the Philippines now face renewed and expanded DDoS attacks against our site, meant to take us down, these exponential lies are like DDoS attacks on our brains, attacking our biology, leaving us defenceless. The platforms and the autocrats that exploit them must be held accountable and governments doing this must move at a faster pace.

In that sense, Russia's invasion of Ukraine has brought nations together and may bring solutions for the continued impunity of platforms for countries like the Philippines—consider the Magnitsky sanctions.

Democratic nations must stand together for democratic values. The solution is three-pronged and remains the core pillars of Rappler: technology, journalism and community.

First, put guardrails around the tech and build better tech. Second, strengthen journalism and help fund independent news, which is part of the reason why I agreed to co-chair the International Fund for Public Interest Media. Third, build communities of action that stand by these democratic values.

I could go to jail for the rest of my life just because I'm a journalist, but what I do now will determine whether that will happen, so I pledge to hold the line. These times demand more, and journalists have met and will meet those demands.

Now it's up to you.

Thank you.

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi

Thank you, Ms. Ressa.

Now we turn to Ms. Boniadi.

You have five minutes for your opening remarks.

6:45 p.m.

Nazanin Boniadi Actress and Ambassador, Amnesty International United Kingdom, As an Individual

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, thanks for inviting me to speak.

Given that the Islamic Republic is ranked among the worst globally with respect to various human rights indices, the utter absence of a free media, the looming JCPOA agreement and the tragedies surrounding the downing of flight PS752, my focus today will be on my homeland, Iran.

Since the 1979 revolution, the denial of fair trials and due process have been symptoms of the Iranian authorities' disdain for the rule of law and those defending it, as well as tools for the monopolization of power and the persecution of those who challenge it. Sadly, it came as no surprise when security forces yet again unlawfully used lethal force and birdshot to crush mass protests over water shortages in Khuzestan and Lorestan provinces last year, killing at least 11 people and injuring scores more. As you may know, in 2019 that number, as Reuters reported, was well over 1,500.

Neither should we be surprised that Iran is suffering from an epidemic of torture. Amnesty International has documented that Iranian authorities have failed to provide accountability for at least 72 deaths in custody since January 2010, despite credible reports that they resulted from torture, ill-treatment or the lethal use of firearms and tear gas by officials. Leaked surveillance footage from Tehran's Evin prison in August 2021 showed prison guards beating, sexually harassing and otherwise torturing prisoners.

In the last year, several thousand men, women and children, including human rights defenders, protesters, bereaved relatives demanding accountability, lawyers, journalists, environmentalists, dissidents, artists, writers, teachers and dual and foreign nationals, have been interrogated and unfairly detained simply for exercising their rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly. Hundreds remained wrongfully detained by the end of the year.

Hundreds of women human rights defenders remain unjustly imprisoned in Iran, including lengthy sentences for at least six women who peacefully campaigned against compulsory veiling. In a brave act of civil disobedience, renowned rights defender Narges Mohammadi, who spent the better part of the last 13 years behind bars for her peaceful advocacy, is resisting a prison summons she received on March 8, deeming it unjust.

The authorities have banned independent political parties, trade unions and civil society organizations; censored media; and jammed satellite television channels. In January the authorities added the messaging application Signal to the list of blocked social media platforms, a list that already includes Facebook, Twitter and YouTube.

The authorities imposed Internet shutdowns during protests, hiding the scale of violations by security forces and preventing people from organizing. They continue to conceal the truth surrounding the January 2020 shooting down of flight PS752 by the Revolutionary Guards, which killed 176 people. It's important that you as Canadian legislators recognize that the bereaved relatives of the victims seeking justice in Iran continue to face intimidation, harassment, arbitrary detention, torture or other ill-treatment. It's imperative that Canada along with Ukraine, the U.K., Sweden and Afghanistan continue to collectively pursue full transparency, accountability and justice.

After a 43-year case study on the Islamic Republic and the rise to the presidency of Ebrahim Raisi, who has been a pillar of the oppressive state implicated in crimes against humanity, and whose leadership hearkens back to 1980s Iran, it's become abundantly clear that a culture of impunity reigns supreme in the country and the system is impervious to reform. We should remember that there is no avenue for justice through domestic channels in Iran. Iranian victims of serious crimes committed by the Iranian authorities look to the international community to take meaningful action to ensure their rights.

This is why Amnesty International and other NGOs have been urging member states of the UN Human Rights Council to support the creation of an impartial mechanism to collect, analyze, consolidate and preserve evidence of the most serious crimes committed in Iran to facilitate future fair and independent criminal proceedings. We also urge member states to renew the mandate of the special rapporteur on the situation of human rights in Iran.

It's encouraging that Canada has been a lead sponsor of a UN resolution for the protection and promotion of human rights in Iran since 2003, when dual Iranian-Canadian citizen and freelance photojournalist Zahra Kazemi was killed while in custody. Her medical examiner later testified that she had sustained brutal torture and rape.

The support and promotion of such resolutions is the very least the people of Iran expect from the free world.

For far too long, we have have soft-pedalled human rights advocacy in our foreign policy, but human rights are intricately bound with respect for the rule of law, and there can be no good governance in the long run without the rule of law. Good and law-abiding governance not only makes for better regional neighbours, but also better members of the international community.

It's not just a moral imperative that we prioritize human rights in our foreign policy; it's to our advantage that we don't allow it to be overshadowed by our geopolitical, economic and other interests.

Thank you.

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi

Thank you, Ms. Boniadi.

Now we will go to Mr. Leung.

You have five minutes, Mr. Leung.

6:50 p.m.

Matthew Leung Former Reporter, Ming Pao Daily, Hong Kong, As an Individual

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for inviting me.

My name is Matthew Leung. I was a full-time news journalist in Hong Kong for six years. I left Hong Kong and moved to the U.K. this January due to safety concerns. I'm now a contract traffic warden working for city council.

Since the close of Apple Daily and the prosecution of those chiefs in the company, journalists in Hong Kong are under turbulence. I'm not the only one who gave up the career I loved and feel proud of, leaving Hong Kong and working a rather meaningless job in order to survive in a free country.

I'm sure you know what that turbulence means, but allow me to give you some summaries and numbers.

The Hong Kong government has been attacking the independent media for some time, but the heaviest blow was using the national security law to freeze the assets of news outlets. That's what happened to Apple Daily last June and then The Standard in December.

Arresting top executives of media outlets and seizing computers would obviously affect the work of journalists, but not as much as freezing assets.

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi

Mr. Leung, apologies for interrupting you.... Could I ask that you keep your microphone closer to your mouth, because the translators are having a difficult time?

6:50 p.m.

Former Reporter, Ming Pao Daily, Hong Kong, As an Individual

Matthew Leung

Is this okay, better now?

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi

Yes, absolutely, thank you.

6:50 p.m.

Former Reporter, Ming Pao Daily, Hong Kong, As an Individual

Matthew Leung

I will continue.

Arresting top executives of media outlets and seizing computers would obviously affect the work of journalists, but not as much as freezing assets, as people cannot work if they're not paid.

After those two outlets were forcefully closed, the third outlet, Citizen News chose to cease operations, saying that they could not allow their youngest staff to face weeks of arrest when they can no longer tell what is risky and what's not.

For media outlets that are still running—the picture shown on screen two—many news shows were cancelled for their critical reporting, more than 300 episodes of an award-winning program—

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi

I'm sorry, Mr. Leung, I'm terribly sorry. We're hearing from the interpreters once again. Can you hold the mike closer to your mouth, if possible? Now it's too close.

6:55 p.m.

Former Reporter, Ming Pao Daily, Hong Kong, As an Individual

Matthew Leung

—more than 300 episodes of an award-winning program [Inaudible—Editor] have moved online...

Can you hear me? Is it better?

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi

I'm terribly sorry about that, Mr. Leung, but some of the members require French. Could I ask that, in lieu of doing your remarks, you kindly and graciously send us your written submission? We will ensure that every member receives it.

Given these technical complications, we will just go to rounds of questioning now.

6:55 p.m.

Former Reporter, Ming Pao Daily, Hong Kong, As an Individual

Matthew Leung

[Technical difficulty—Editor]

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi

Thank you very much, Mr. Leung.

Our first round of questions consists of seven minutes for each member who is either here present or online, and our first member is Mr. Sameer Zuberi.

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC

I want to thank all of the witnesses for being here, and for your courage. I fully recognize how challenging it is for each and every one of you to be advocating in the spaces you're in, knowing that for what you say, you're going to receive a lot of headwind. You're obviously going to be heavily critiqued. In many cases, your safety is in danger, even if you're outside of your country of origin.

For Ms. Ressa, strength to you. I know you're fighting a very important fight, and this is extremely challenging, but we wish you strength and courage. I'd like to start my questions with you. I heard you on CBC's The House. It's a radio program that's often listened to in Canada by most of us here, and those who follow what happens in Parliament.

I want to allow you to elaborate some more on the technology, the nexus of technology with human rights and your comments on our moving from our natural state to an agitated state, and how that's employed by those who undermine human rights.

6:55 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer and President, Rappler

Maria Ressa

I can talk about that on two fronts. First, so much of the debate on this is kind of further downstream, so how do we think about it? The very first part of fighting for human rights, or free expression, actually begins with having the facts.

Right now, the platforms all want you to debate content moderation, which is the furthest downstream. If you're stuck here, the platforms make more money out of surveillance capitalism. What we need to do is to really move further upstream to the operating system, the algorithmic amplification. That's incredibly important. That's what a great book, Weapons of Math Destruction, calls “opinions embedded in code”.

Once you're there, you then move further upstream to the root cause. That's all the way here. We start from here, and that's surveillance capitalism, and that's where all of the problems connect that seemed to have been siloed. That includes safety, privacy, antitrust, and content moderation.

Part of our problem now is that these have been exploited by geopolitical power. These networks now form a global nervous system of what I call “toxic sludge”, and that's fuelled by nations like China and Russia.

In 2018, we connected the information operations in the Philippines with Russian disinformation networks through websites in Canada. In 2020, Facebook took down information operations from China that were creating fake accounts for the U.S. elections. In the Philippines, those same accounts were polishing the image of the Marcos, campaigning for Duterte's daughter, and attacking Rappler.

In 2021, the U.S. and the EU called out China and Russia for COVID-19 disinformation. I guess I want to just emphasize how connected we all are.

I guess the upside here is that we're starting to see more legislation. Last week, the European Union hammered out the last details of the Digital Markets Act. That's to be followed by the digital services act. I know Canada has this also in play, but these two will take time.

I continue, as I did in the Nobel lecture, to appeal to U.S. legislators to reform or revoke section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, because we, at the front lines, need immediate help.

7 p.m.

Liberal

Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC

Do you think it's important that parliamentarians have the algorithms of social media companies' manifests, so we can actually do a deeper dive into this. Do you think that's appropriate? Must we do that quickly?

If you could answer that, I'd then like to shift the conversation to Iran.

7 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer and President, Rappler

Maria Ressa

Absolutely. You need to demand greater transparency in those algorithms of amplification. Think about it like this. You do this with drugs. We take that apart. We take it down to its ingredients. It's the same thing with algorithmic amplification. Why does it remain a black box? The sooner you do it, the better it will be for all of us.

7 p.m.

Liberal

Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC

Thank you so much.

I'd like to shift gears for a moment and go to Ms. Boniadi. You mentioned Narges Mohammadi. You just touched upon her lightly. I've heard about her. Can you please shed some light in terms of what her latest active civil disobedience was and anything else you'd like to share with this committee?

7 p.m.

Actress and Ambassador, Amnesty International United Kingdom, As an Individual

Nazanin Boniadi

Thank you very much. I'd just like to say how I am in awe of Ms. Ressa and Mr. Leung. Thank you so much for all you do.

Narges Mohammadi is equally brave putting her own life at risk inside Iran as a long-time human rights defender. I recently spoke to her. She is bravely defying a prison summons that she received a few weeks ago. She spent the better part of 13 years in prison for her peaceful human rights advocacy. She was in solitary confinement four times. The last time was for 64 days, 40 of which were spent completely incommunicado, with no access to a lawyer, nothing. And yet she's risking all of this again—her safety and her security.

She asks of you that when international lawmakers or anyone with any kind of connection to Iran is making an official visit to the country and meeting with someone inside the country—and I understand that Canada doesn't have those official ties—someone like the foreign minister, that they demand to first meet with someone like Narges so they can amplify the voices of civil society inside the country so that civil society dissidents know that those people, those officials as foreign officials, have not taken the side of their oppressors over them.

It is very important that we give those people platforms. Narges's request to all of you is that we give a platform to people like her, that we don't simply allow people like Zarif, the former foreign minister, to write op-eds in our western newspapers, that we give platforms and voice to dissidents inside Iran and strengthen civil society in that way. Narges is really a champion of that in so many ways. Uplifting people like her like Nasrin Sotoudeh, like Atena Daemi and countless other brave activists is very important.

I'd just like to add, on the subject of journalism inside Iran, that while the world was so focused, and rightfully so, on the atrocious death and tragedy of Jamal Khashoggi, it completely overlooked Rahul Azam who was lured to Iraq, abducted, taken to Iran and executed after a grossly unfair trial. So we're really not hearing enough about the struggles of civil society inside Iran.

7:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi

Thank you very much.

We now turn to Mr. Cooper.

You have seven minutes, Mr. Cooper.

7:05 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses.

I was going to direct my questions to Mr. Leung, but obviously we weren't able to hear from him. I'm very much interested in the situation in Hong Kong, so I look very much forward to his brief. With his being unable to—