Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on March 23rd, 2026

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here, especially those who have gone through personal ordeals and are standing strong despite the repression of states against you and those around you. Thank you for standing strong.

I'd like to start with Mr. Tohti.

You highlighted today the case of Huseyin Celil, a Canadian citizen who has gone through this horrible ordeal with his family of 20 years of separation and incarceration. Can you talk about how this case exemplifies transnational repression? What should be our takeaways as a country from this case?

[Mehmet Tohti]

It has been a horrible 20 years for his family and his children and, at the same time, for the entire Uyghur community in diaspora. It was intended by the Chinese government just to hit one bird hard and scare the rest. That was the tactic. I know Huseyin Celil personally, and we lived together. He's very peaceful and is a family man.

The most stunning thing was that despite all previous Canadian governments' sincere efforts to get word from Huseyin Celil personally, the Chinese government completely ignored his citizenship. That also placed some sort of question mark on Canadian citizenship and to what extent Canada can offer protection. This was a kind of shock wave.

It is for that reason I featured Huseyin Celil in my opening statement entirely, because this was the beginning of transnational repression. There was no transnational repression that we were talking about 20 years ago. Huseyin Celil's case is the face and the name of transnational repression. He's a Canadian citizen abducted in a foreign country and sentenced to life without being granted a single consular access in 20 years. Just imagine: We don't know if he's alive or dead.

For that reason, it is a really important case and I hope all parliamentarians across the parties pick up this case and ask the government to take serious steps toward action.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you. There has been a lot of cross-party parliamentary action on this and the cause you're advocating for.

With respect to safe third countries, we know Canada has offered refuge to Uyghur people through a resettlement program. There are other safe third countries; I would argue G7 countries are safe third countries for Uyghur people and others, like Hong Kongers and Tibetans, who are going through transnational repression.

When we zoom in on the Uyghur people, there are a lot of Uyghurs in third countries that are not in the G7. Are those third countries safe for those Uyghurs outside of China?

We know of the Wilson report from 2022 that said that 1,574 documented cases of deportation at the “behest of China” did occur. What's the situation today?

[Mehmet Tohti]

The situation is the same as the Wilson report highlighted a number of years ago. Maybe it is getting worse because of the Chinese increasing influence over those countries, and those countries' dependency diplomatically and economically on China. Also, it may be those countries' tendency to see and accept China as a leverage against Western powers. For that reason, those countries are more dependent on China than ever before. Victim communities of Uyghurs and vulnerable people are paying a heavy price.

As you will remember, last year Thailand deported 40 Uyghurs back to China. Just last month, the UN issued a report, and they couldn't find the whereabouts of those deported Uyghurs. We don't know if they are in prison, safe or with their families. The Chinese government refused to give any account of them.

Central Asian states such as Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Azerbaijan, even Turkey as well as the Middle East, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates countries, are not safe.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

In general, they are not safe.

Thank you. I appreciate that for the record.

I'd like to go to Dr. Deibert.

I know at Citizen Lab that you have done a lot of work in terms of monitoring and transnational repression. I'd like to open up the floor for you to speak to your research.

How do states do this when it comes to your electronic research, and which states are involved in this?

[Dr. Ronald J. Deibert]

That's a good question.

We focus on the digital component of transnational repression. Typically, this involves governments using a variety of surveillance and hacking tools, many of which are commercially available now, to repress people abroad. In fact, this is why we have been seeing an explosion in cases globally over the last 15 years.

The digital ecosystem is poorly secured, and social media is a perfect vector through which to harass and intimidate people. Of course, there is now a largely unregulated mercenary surveillance marketplace of companies that provide governments, under the auspices of fighting crime and terrorism, with tools that enable them to track and get inside the devices of political activists and dissidents abroad.

We are seeing an explosion of this marketplace right now. There are very few regulations around it. This is a very opaque space, and a variety of governments are using those tools to target people abroad.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Are there any particular companies, groups or governments, that stand out in these sorts of activities?

[Dr. Ronald J. Deibert]

Yes, 100%. There have been companies that have featured prominently in our research such as the NSO Group, the manufacturer of Pegasus spyware. Many people in this room may have heard about it because of the press reporting and the Citizen Lab's forensic research.

There are dozens of cases over the last 10 years of governments using that either for domestic espionage or spying on people abroad. The NSO Group, which, by the way, has been sanctioned by the United States, is only one company in a growing marketplace. There are American companies, Italian companies, Gulf-based companies and Spanish companies. The reality is that it's a very lucrative marketplace.

There's a big appetite for this technology, and it boils down to the fact that every one of us carries around a phone, takes it home with us and puts it at our bedside table. One minute it's safe, and the next it's funnelling data to a bunker somewhere on the far side of the world.

In our research, through careful forensic analysis, we meet with victims and analyze their phones, and in many cases we see that they've been spied on unwittingly. Someone from abroad can turn on a camera or turn on a microphone and look at all of your social networks today and in the past and, most powerfully, track your location in order to facilitate either kidnappings, beatings or, in the worst case, assassinations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Mr. Zuberi.

I'd like to invite Mr. Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe to take the floor.

You have the floor for seven minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being with us for this important study.

Mr. Tohti, if you like, I'll accompany you next Thursday to the press conference marking 20 years since Mr. Celil's imprisonment.

I think one way to counter transnational repression is to be consistent with the political positions or decisions we make.

I want to talk to you about motion No. 62, which recognized the genocide of Uyghurs and proposed, among other things, “to expedite the entry of 10,000 Uyghurs and other Turkic Muslims in need of protection, over two years starting in 2024 into Canada”.

In your opinion, has the Canadian government kept its promise? Have the objectives of motion No. 62 been achieved?

[Mehmet Tohti]

The program in M-62 was voted on by the whole House. The government accepted the program and promised Parliament it would implement it.

The program was kick-started on January 1, 2024. It has now been almost two and a half years, and the program is ongoing. The only concern is that we have not brought in 10,000 people yet. We have not even brought in 1,000 people yet. We've probably brought in fewer than 500 in two years. If it continues at this speed, it may take 20 or 40 years to bring all 10,000 people here.

For that reason, I urge the Government of Canada to uphold that parliamentary promise and parliamentary will, and urge the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship to review this program one more time and expedite it.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I think we've spent enough time together for me to safely say that I have a lot of friends in the Uyghur community. We regularly hear testimony from members of the Uyghur diaspora in Quebec or Canada. They say they're being pressured, surveilled and receiving threats targeting their loved ones back in China. That's often what transnational repression looks like: members of a diaspora living in a given region are used to threaten their loved ones or families in China.

Given what you've seen from the new Canadian government in recent months or the past year, do you think Canada is taking the threats being made to the Uyghur diaspora here seriously?

[Mehmet Tohti]

That is the concern for many Canadians, because transnational oppression, Uyghur genocide, forced labour, surveillance technology and the many Chinese high-tech companies that are operating in Canada have been part of the public discussion for a number of years. We have even had a public inquiry about transnational oppression, and there are recommendations from independent commissions.

If we look all of that, bring all the pieces together and look at the implementation side, there are a lot of issues in implementing those previously discussed policy matters and recommendations offered by the commissioner. For example, legislation on Uyghur forced labour was promised by the government three times—in budget 2023, in budget 2024 and in the 2024 fall economic statement—but we haven't see any bills tabled by the government on it.

Now that CUSMA is starting to be reviewed, this issue is coming up. For that reason, we need to strengthen Canada's hand and leverage by passing that legislation. It is important. Domestic law is required to take action.

We also need protection for the victim communities against transnational oppression from China, Iran or other countries. It is important to pass the legislation proposed by the commissioner, as well as amend the laws as recommended. We should implement them as soon as possible.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you for your answer.

Mr. Chan, I have the honour of being one of Hong Kong Watch's sponsors. Over the years, a certain friendship has developed between us.

I'd like to talk about the mandatory provident fund. Isn't that an example of involuntary transnational repression? Canadian insurance companies abide by Hong Kong laws. Hong Kong authorities, through these same laws, are engaging in transnational repression by ensuring that opponents of the regime or Hong Kong refugees in Canada cannot access their pensions.

I'm not casting stones at these companies, but aren't they unwittingly participating in transnational repression by preventing people who are here in Canada from accessing these funds?

[Landson Chan]

Yes, absolutely. It is absolutely a form of transnational repression. We have actually been advocating for the MPF...for a very long time, because what's happening here is this is money they earned in Hong Kong—it's basically a pension fund—but because of Hong Kong law....

Sometimes, if they are dealing with refugees' funds, it will be even more serious. They can apply the national security law in Hong Kong right now and transform it into a way of preventing access to those funds. They will lose those funds, potentially permanently, and some of them.... Even if it's temporary, it doesn't make sense.

We have to do something to ensure that they get their money back, instead of letting the Chinese government get in their way.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Do I have any time left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

You have 15 minutes. No, it's 15 seconds.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Do I have 15 minutes? That's no problem.

Since I have only 15 seconds left, I'll resume my questions during the next round.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe.

I invite Ms. Yip to take the floor for five minutes.

Ms. Yip, the floor is yours.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you to all the witnesses for coming today and for sharing their expertise.

My question is directed to Mr. Chan.

How has transnational repression impacted the wider Hong Kong community in Canada, aside from your very detailed comments about activists?

[Landson Chan]

Aside from the casework I mentioned, the wider community is generally scared to speak up. Even when we organize events, I think they hesitate to participate because they can see the influence of the Chinese government in Canada. Yes, it has created a chilling effect for everyone in the wider community, especially when they saw what happened to Joe Tay. His campaign was severely disrupted. It's not a fair election for him if he is scared and gets all that harassment.

Most of the Hong Kong communities are aware of this. I would say that there is a chilling effect and that they are very scared of speaking up.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Have there been more police stations reported?

[Landson Chan]

In my research, I saw that two were discovered in Montreal and three were discovered in Toronto, to the best of my knowledge. I believe the two in Montreal have already closed, but without the RCMP laying charges.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

What are your recommendations to reassure the Hong Kong community and Canadians at large about disinformation?

[Landson Chan]

The most pressing thing we can do right now is implement the legislation for the foreign registry passed in 2024. The framework is already there, but we are slow to implement it and provide more protection, especially to high-risk individuals. It's a clear mechanism for those who are experiencing transnational repression to report it and eventually—potentially—transform that into a prosecution.