International Trade Committee on Feb. 6th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Go ahead.

[Gudlaugur Thordarson]

We like to think that we consult with the ones who are interested when it comes to a process like this one. You mentioned, for example, the agriculture sector and others when you were talking about the situation in our countries. It's difficult to say when you are keeping consumers in the loop.

In Iceland, the pressure from the consumer at the moment is that we should open more markets for agricultural products. It's never that everyone agrees on everything, as you know, but we like to keep everyone as involved and informed as possible. It's only sometimes that everyone agrees when it comes to things like that.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

May I ask you specifically about the negotiations that took place in mid-January? Have you brought that back? Has there been discussion in the Althingi?

[Gudlaugur Thordarson]

No, that hasn't been done. As we mentioned, I think I could say the majority of parliamentarians are very much in favour of free trade, although there could be some exceptions. Rather, in the question time in Parliament in the last years it has been questioned why this hasn't been done. That's the pressure we get from Parliament.

Nothing about this has been discussed in Parliament, nothing about free trade negotiations with Canada or other nations, for a long time.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

I'm talking about the specifics of any potential agreement with Canada. How do you discuss it? How do you vet it? How do you consult? How do you get feedback on the discussions for the negotiations?

[Gudlaugur Thordarson]

The negotiation is not on a political level, it's on the foreign ministry or the EFTA secretariat level. I'm not familiar with how they keep people or industries informed. I admit I don't know how that's done. But in Parliament we haven't discussed this. It's very rare that we would discuss these things in specific detail.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you.

Also, Mr. Caduff would like to respond. Go ahead, please.

[Henrik Caduff]

Thank you very much.

I can only speak for Liechtenstein. I think each country is a little different in the EFTA states. We, as politicians, are not involved. The whole thing is done by the government and the negotiators, not only for the Canada free trade agreement, but for all of them. Most or all of the movement within the negotiations is done without our knowing where it's going. We get the results in Parliament when the negotiations are closed and the free trade agreement is finished. Then we can take part in it or give our points of view. But beforehand, it's more or less a closed door.

I personally think that in general it's a good way. If the information is too open, political discussions will start very early in the process. I'm sure a lot of free trade agreements that have been concluded wouldn't be there if the information had come out too early.

What Liechtenstein discovered from the free trade agreements was that some industries didn't go as well, because you have to go for the market, the extent of the market and the extent of competition. Some didn't do so well, while others did better. But even if we lost jobs, in general we created more with the free trade agreements. We created more jobs than we lost. Certain areas can be tough, while others get along more easily.

In general, for the politicians, politics are not involved in the free trade agreements. It's only at the very end that the politicians can say what they like or don't like about it, or if they like it at all.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you.

Mr. Hansen, you wanted to respond as well, and Mr. David too, I believe.

[Svein Hansen]

I would like to say it is the same in Norway when it comes to negotiations like the EFTA's with Canada or other countries. It's the EFTA secretariat and the government's cup of tea, so to say. When you talk about the Doha Round WTO negotiations, for example, then the foreign minister and the minister of agriculture were in the Parliament and gave a statement, and it was of some discussion. Of course, the government has contact with the organizations and the industries that are affected. I think they have a pretty good overview of where the problem is. As parliamentarians, we have very little under way in the process.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you.

Mr. David.

[Eugen David]

As a first remark, we have a consultative committee at the EFTA level, where there are economic organizations from both sides—the business and the labour force. They also discuss these main issues--not the details, but the strategies. Also, in the Swiss Parliament, in the committees, every year we have reports about the policy of the EFTA, and in this report we have the directions, but we don't discuss details of the agreements.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you.

Mr. Julian, your time is up.

We'll take a break now for 10 minutes. Lunch is at the back.

Just before we do that, though, gentlemen, there is a formality that unfortunately we have to deal with here, and we have to do it now. There is a motion that I will read, and if you support it, we'll just go ahead quickly: “That the committee host a working lunch for the delegation and that the costs be charged to the committee's hospitality budget and that the total not exceed $700.”

I hate to talk about the cost of lunch before we eat, but we didn't do it in advance, so we have to do it now. Is that agreed?

(Motion agreed to)

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

That's a cheap lunch.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

We will suspend the meeting for 10 minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

We will reconvene the meeting and go to the second round of questions.

Mr. Maloney.

[John Maloney, Liberal, Welland, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The commentary this morning has indicated that you are not part of the EU, but you have agreements with EU countries. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think in those agreements you tend to exclude agriculture and fisheries. Why would that be?

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Hansen.

[Svein Hansen]

I'll take that first. We in the high north of Norway, together with Iceland and Russia, have succeeded in taking care of the fish stocks very well. All that part of Europe has done so. The Norwegian fishermen were afraid that the EU policy in that area would destroy the fish stocks, to put it simply. In another part of our fishery policy there are also difficulties, compared with the EU's policy in that area. So that summarizes the problems that had to be solved.

Norwegian agriculture is very small-scale, and if we had entered the EU it would have been necessary to go through some changes. Finland succeeded in their changes, and that's very similar to Norwegian agriculture. We have a lot of subsidies in the agriculture sector and we couldn't have kept them on that level, so that was the main problem.

[John Maloney, Liberal, Welland, ON]

In an agreement with Canada, would you also want to exclude agriculture and perhaps fisheries?

[Svein Hansen]

I'm not familiar with the details in the negotiations between EFTA and Canada, but as far as I know, the fisheries and agriculture present no problems. But others here may know more about that than I do.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Maloney, Mr. Fehr wanted to answer your first question as well.

Go ahead.

[Mario Fehr]

In Switzerland we have no fishery problem because we don't fish a lot. When it comes to agriculture we have a problem because we also have a lot of subsidies.

But our government shares the opinion of many of us that we should start to negotiate with the European Free Trade Agreement on agriculture. I am quite sure that within the next one to two years we will start to negotiate such an agreement, especially if the Doha Round goes on for agriculture.

If the Doha Round is successful, we will have to cut a lot of subsidies. Then a better option may be for our farmers to go into negotiations with the European Union. But within our Parliament nowadays, I think you could find the majority are for negotiations on agriculture with the European Union.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you.

Mr. Thordarson, you had some comments on the last question, I believe.

[Gudlaugur Thordarson]

He was asking about the position of the member states because of fisheries and agriculture--if that would be okay. When it comes to Iceland, we have never gone that far in negotiating with the EU about membership. I think it would be very difficult for a politician in Iceland to persuade the population that the fish and fish stocks would be better controlled by the European Union than by Icelanders. For example, we would like to believe that we have done quite well governing that part in a sustainable way.

When it comes to agriculture, I think we are moving in the right direction, even though we have not made big steps. For the first time there is total free trade between Iceland and the Faeroe Islands in agriculture, and agriculture is becoming less and less important in Iceland's economy.

So I think it's just a question of time when we will open our markets more than we have already to agriculture products from other parts of the world. Maybe it's sensible to do this slower rather than faster, but things have changed very much in the last years.