International Trade Committee on Feb. 22nd, 2007

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lui Temelkovski]

Thank you very much.

We will move on to Mr. David Sweet.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you for the great presentations this morning. Of course now we're into the afternoon.

Mr. Woo, by the way, you'd be happy to know that in my riding we have a very successful private college that trains foreign students, Columbia International College, so we have some entrepreneurs who are capitalizing on that opportunity.

I am very interested in the people-to-people connection that was mentioned, and in growing that. We've touched on students. I'm not expecting you to have the actual number of students, but do we have an idea of how many foreign students have graduated from Canadian universities in ASEAN countries, and how that compares to the penetration of foreign students we've educated in other regions of the globe?

[Yuen Pau Woo]

I have that data. I don't have it here, but we collect that data.

My sense is that in terms of students from Asia, counting not just post-secondary but also high school and ESL students, the most important market for us is Korea because of the ESL market. It's probably followed by China, which is more of a post-secondary market. I suspect Japan would be next, which again is an ESL market, and then Southeast Asia collectively probably comes right after that. India is a very insignificant market for us. That's a whole different story, which presents similar kinds of opportunities. But Southeast Asia is really low down on the list.

And within Southeast Asia, we really are talking about students from, I would say, Malaysia and Singapore, maybe a little bit from the Philippines, but that's about it.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

I'm in agreement with you, by the way, about the multiplicity of benefits that we get from foreign-trained students, even besides the income, with the capability of being able to exchange those values. And of course, 10 years from now the foreign-trained students we train today are going to be the ones who create those bridges for trade in the future, etc. So I appreciate your position on that.

You mentioned concern not only about the difficulty of getting visas, but also the way there's a lack of congruity with how those applications are treated. Can you tell me, number one, have you been hearing on the ground that it has been more difficult after 9/11? And do you have anything but anecdotal evidence for the way that different visa applications are treated?

[Yuen Pau Woo]

All of this is anecdotal. All we can say is that people will come to us—this is on the business side—and they will complain that they weren't given a visa. On the face of it, we know these people are bona fide business people, and it's inexplicable. I'm not saying the immigration officer didn't have a valid reason, but we don't know what it is.

A special problem that relates to the issue of student visas is this. It's not just a rejection rate, it also has to do with the sequencing of the visa process vis-à-vis the university admission process. My understanding is that with Australian universities the two processes are parallel; in fact, they are totally in sync, in that if you get accepted into an Australian university, you then get your Australian visa as well. It has to take place at the same time. However, in the case of a Canadian university, you first have to be admitted into the university, and then you need to go through the whole visa process, which could take--I don't know how long, but we're talking about months and months and months.

You know what this does to the potential applicant. If you know that you've been accepted into Australian National University and have an Australian visa already, but you have to wait another eight months or twelve moths or whatever to figure out if you can get a visa to attend U of T, you take the money and run, right? So this is a problem.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Yes. Having McMaster also in my riding, I've dealt with cases on the other side of that quite frequently.

The one detail I did want to get is, have you heard of an increased difficulty in getting visas?

[Yuen Pau Woo]

No, actually, I haven't. We heard about this problem vis-à-vis the United States, and as a result we thought we might get a diversion of students who were turned off going to the U.S. to come to Canada, but in fact we haven't seen those so-called “benefits”. It has happened for some other markets, like Australia and the U.K., but we haven't seen any correlation between visa applications and the approval process post-9/11.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Woo.

Mr. Clark, Madam Bourgeois had asked the panel a question regarding Brazil and the lack of infrastructure. Of course you didn't agree with that, but I do want to ask you a question about Indonesia, if you know. How far along is their reconstruction? Do they have adequate infrastructure to be able to trade in a robust way with us?

[Peter Clark]

I think so. Indonesia is very interested in expanding trade with Canada. We've had chats with the ambassador and his people. In terms of a market, it's the biggest potential market that we have in ASEAN, because there are so many people there.

Indonesia is like many of the countries in the region; its infrastructure varies depending on how far you are from the centres of population. But that's what's important, the centres of population. Yes, you have to move things around for 200 million people, but the population is there.

As for Brazil, I would say that the only place Brazil doesn't have infrastructure is in the northeast. If you go from Rio de Janeiro down to the bottom, down to Uruguay, it's just like you're in Europe.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

The other part of that question is, have you been on the ground, or do you have any intelligence? Is the reconstruction well on its way, almost complete, or still languishing?

[Peter Clark]

I don't have any recent exposure to it. I haven't been there for a few years.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Serge Cardin]

Mr. Maloney or Mr. LeBlanc.

Oh, Mr. Julian, excuse me.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

No problem, Mr. Chair. You have just taken over.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Serge Cardin]

I did it to allow you more time at the end.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to come back to how we use our biggest asset, which is the communities of Canadians that originate from Southeast Asia: the Filipino Canadian community, the Vietnamese Canadian community, the Thai community. All of those are significant communities, they are a significant link. In terms of trade policy, we really don't take advantage of any of our substantial communities that exist in Canada, one of the biggest assets we have, to actually further broaden and deepen those things with other countries.

With Southeast Asia, how do we mobilize or assist the Filipino community, the Thai community, the Malaysian community, and the Vietnamese community to help to broaden our trade links and our country-to-country links with those countries?

[Carmelita Tapia]

It's very interesting to note that you are speaking about multiculturalism. We have lots of Filipinos and Vietnamese. Those are the two biggest ones that I know of. What those communities did was form bilateral organizations like the Philippines-Canada Trade Council for the Filipinos, the Vancouver Chinese Vietnamese Business Association, and the Canada Singapore Business Association. They add the bilaterals that I am talking about, and those associations are assisting the small and medium-sized enterprises to do business back in their own countries. That's one we are promoting, trade investments. That's our way of promoting trade and investments between Canada and ASEAN.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Those organizations don't really receive much support from the federal government.

[Carmelita Tapia]

Yes. We are not receiving any support from the provincial or the federal government. We are funding those organizations ourselves. That's why I am here to present our views, and maybe to seek assistance if the government can give something.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Yes. That's really my question. I know there are very strong bilateral organizations that have come from the communities themselves, but there is a disconnect between what's happening in those communities and the links in Southeast Asia, and the support that should normally be coming from the federal government.

Ms. Tapia, you mentioned that it has been a year that you have been requesting to meet with the Minister of International Trade, and that hasn't happened. Obviously something is wrong with what policy framework we have in Ottawa with the federal government and what is actually happening on the ground. How do we change that?

[Carmelita Tapia]

Give us a chance to meet with the minister, and we can express what we need, what we want, and our views, so things can be improved. The relations between the bilateral and the government can be improved so help can be given to us, and we can also give some help to the government in terms of these economic relations.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Mr. Woo.

[Yuen Pau Woo]

I would just add that business bilaterals are very important. What we've done at the foundation is to prepare a development database of all the so-called Asian ethnic business associations across the country, including Ms. Tapia's organization. We were so surprised to find that there are over 140 of them, typically organized by recent immigrants with an explicit focus on how to expand trade and investment between Canada and their so-called native countries.

We have to find ways to do more with these organizations. The question is what--what is it you want to do with them besides providing support to the associations themselves? I think the most important thing we can do is to somehow put them into the mainstream, put these so-called Asian ethnic business bilaterals in contact with the boards of trade and the chambers of commerce, the so-called mainstream Canadian businesses that have track records, that have networks and contacts and access to policy-makers, decision-makers, and so on, so that we can tap into the knowledge networks, the contacts, and the access of these associations for the benefit of the broader Canadian economy.

It would not be a good idea to simply treat the ethnic business bilaterals as enclave associations in and of their own right.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Serge Cardin]

Unfortunately, your time is up.

Mr. Maloney.

[John Maloney, Liberal, Welland, ON]

Much of the discussion this morning has been about Canada's trading into the ASEAN. Trade is a two-way street. What sectors do you feel that perhaps ASEAN could be looking at to trade into Canada, and what would we have to do to facilitate that?