Absolutely. That's been our point all along. We said, even if we get our 15-year phase-out and nothing else happens, that's going to be...I think your colleague said death by a thousand cuts. It will be the same thing. The industry will carry on. You won't have the capability to invest, for if you're not making money, you can't invest. And you have to invest in people and infrastructure.
And Norway has done a tremendous job. I have great admiration for Norway. I have many friends there. They subsidize their engineering, they subsidize their technical capability, and that's why I said we buy their designs. They're first class.
But doing the phase-out without doing something else is not going to work. We'll just gradually die. We won't die right away. There are a number of government programs, so we'll exist for a while--and the word is “exist”--and then we'll just gradually die.
Norway's been through it. Germany's been through it. B.C. Ferries are building two over in Germany. That yard was bankrupted over there. It's terrible. That yard was built and subsidized with government money. It was bankrupt; it was a wreck. The German governments, local and federal, poured all sorts of money into it. It took them 10 years to get up to where they are--a first-class shipyard, absolutely. It's a good shipyard, all built with government money.
We're saying give us the programs that we need to give the industry a chance.