Evidence of meeting #34 for International Trade in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was colombia.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Ken Georgetti  President, Canadian Labour Congress
Edouard Asnong  President, Canada Pork International
Geoff Garver  Environmental Consultant, As an Individual
Sheila Katz  National Representative for the Americas, International Department, Canadian Labour Congress
Jacques Pomerleau  Executive Director, Canada Pork International

4:35 p.m.

Bloc

Serge Cardin Bloc Sherbrooke, QC

You see that it is not yet ratified, which is probably an incentive for the Canadian government to speed up the process in order to negotiate something else.

Do I have any more time left, Mr. Chair?

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

You have a minute.

4:35 p.m.

Bloc

Serge Cardin Bloc Sherbrooke, QC

Mr. Georgetti, we asked you if you had previously supported free trade agreements. Clearly, for various reasons not mentioned in each agreement, the ones that you have not necessarily supported, workers' jobs must be protected under those agreements.

Overall, human rights must be protected first of all and the right to join a union second of all. Despite what was said earlier, since Mr. Uribe has been in power, the rate of union membership has dropped sharply. I see union membership as a right. There at least, we have a specific reason. In other cases, other reasons were in play. We want to improve these agreements, but unfortunately, we have no support from the government.

Do you want to answer the question you were asked earlier?

4:40 p.m.

President, Canadian Labour Congress

Ken Georgetti

Upon reflection here, I think I would. There was one trade agreement we did like and that was called the Auto Pact, when we got to manufacture one car for every car that was sold in Canada. But you have to understand that the experience of our membership--if you look back 25 years from today, when we started signing these free trade agreements--is that we haven't gained any ground on our standard of living. The 25 years before that, when we had properly managed trade, the Canadian standard of living went up every year. So when you ask our people on the ground if they see a benefit from these so-called trading agreements--and I don't believe they have much to do with trade, they have more to do with protecting investors and protecting the rights of multinational corporations over citizens' rights--most Canadians would say they haven't benefited from it.

You're watching the same thing in the United States. When Barack Obama and Mrs. Clinton talk about renegotiating those trade agreements, their popularity in the United States goes up because Americans are dubious, not at the notion of trade, because we all support trade, but at the notion of how these trade deals were negotiated and by whom. I say that the people who negotiated these agreements have more interest in protecting large multinational corporations than they do the citizens they're supposed to represent. They're bad negotiators, is what they are, and we should put people in there who know how to negotiate.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Thank you.

Do you have a comment, Mr. Miller?

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

Mr. Chair, I want to first thank the witnesses for being here.

First of all, Mr. Georgetti, I just want to say I'm very surprised, of course, that you haven't heard of all the support that's out there for free trade agreements in general. There's certainly a lot of support for our companies and for agriculture here in Canada. Your organization may not have a lot of farmers in it or people who work in agriculture, although I'm sure there probably are people who work in agribusiness of some kind, or at least a spinoff from it, but I can tell you that when this committee was in Colombia, it was unbelievable where some of the support for a free trade agreement came from.

I believe it was on the first day we were there that we drove out of Bogota, and in Sincelejo we met with a number of representatives, with the UN and what have you. What really stuck with me is that we met with a group of eight or nine displaced people, all of them women, except for one man who was with them.

I can remember that one of our members here, Ms. Murray, asked a direct question of them: “Would a free trade agreement with Canada affect displaced people in a negative way or a positive way?” Their exact comments were: “Yes, it would benefit us; absolutely it would.” I wrote the words down at the time. I don't have them in front of me, but I have them in my office.

Those displaced people, if there is anybody who, short of being killed, has gone through hell.... The husbands of most of the women we talked to had been killed by, basically, the drug industry—drug lords and what have you. It was, “Either leave the land or we'll kill you”, and that's what happened. So those women got out.

My point is that somebody who has gone through that kind of strife in their life—

4:45 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Is there a question?

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

Peter, I never interrupted you, so be quiet, please.

Coming from people who have gone through that kind of strife, Mr. Georgetti, this basically surprised me. I didn't know what kind of answer Ms. Murray was going to get to her question. And there was lots more than that down there.

Along the lines of what Mr. Keddy was saying, we've seen dozens of Canadian companies that we happened to meet—and of course, with limited time you can't meet with them all—but we never once heard down there from—

4:45 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

This is a question period. We have witnesses who have come here, and the member has been speaking for four minutes.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

There is a question coming. It's my time; I didn't interrupt you.

Is it my time, Mr. Chair?

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Mr. Miller has the floor, Mr. Julian. We've been quite respectful of your diatribes over the years, so we'll let him go ahead.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

Now I've lost my train of thought, but it was along the idea of—

4:45 p.m.

Some hon. members

Start over.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

Yes, I could, too.

Anyway, we met with a lot of these—

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

We'll have to turn back the clock here. We'll give you another five minutes.

4:45 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

Anyway, what we didn't hear down there is.... There were accusations and comments that Canadian companies were doing such-and-such, but we never heard of any actual situations. Nobody could name a company; it was only allegations. So I think maybe you should do your homework a little more, and I think, if you want to, you will find those.

Mr. Asnong, I know that people, especially in the pork industry, have been going through some strife, and thankfully it's rebounding a bit. We heard that this FTA would really benefit the pork industry. Have you any idea, sir, what kinds of dollars that might mean to your industry—or Mr. Pomerleau?

4:45 p.m.

Executive Director, Canada Pork International

Jacques Pomerleau

It's likely to double the volume, up to close to $10 million a year in the next three to four years.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

And what would the figure be on that, then? You said “double” it. What's the figure?

4:45 p.m.

Executive Director, Canada Pork International

Jacques Pomerleau

For me it will go from 2,500 tonnes to 5,000 tonnes.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

That's good.

Have you heard any comments or dissension from any companies related to the pork industry here that might say this isn't a good deal?

4:45 p.m.

President, Canada Pork International

Edouard Asnong

No, our companies are all exporters, and they long to have access.

As well, the fact that we are first in many countries sets the field for the other countries around them. Many times when we export to another country they become re-exporters to their neighbours. So it's maybe a small market for now, but it could double. Eventually it could be huge--all the region--and we cannot afford to let our competitors play on their own there.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

Thank you, sir.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

We're moving along very well today with all this cooperation and cordiality.

Mr. Dhaliwal, you can begin the third round.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to give one minute to Ms. Murray. She has some good questions.