Evidence of meeting #6 for International Trade in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was deal.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Marc Toupin  Procedural Clerk
Ian Burney  Chief Trade Negotiator, Bilateral and Regional, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
John Gero  Assistant Deputy Minister, Trade Policy and Negotiations Branch, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

4 p.m.

Bloc

Serge Cardin Bloc Sherbrooke, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

This situation is indeed somewhat uncomfortable. I was surprised to hear in the House that this bill was referred to the Standing Committee on International Trade in view of the fact that its nature and its major impact have to do with financial matters.

We support on principle this Senate bill. However, we would have liked clarification on some aspects. In my view, we should be able to get answers rather quickly on a number of questions. If it was referred to the Standing Committee on International Trade, it is probably because the Standing Committee on Finance did not have time to deal with it and some aspects of the bill must be implemented early next year.

I am not opposed to this because the bill corrects some truly aberrant situations. However, a few questions arise considering that this bill could have a much wider impact than one might think, and we need clarification in this regard.

While I do not want to drag out our consideration of the bill, there is a need to set aside a minimum amount of time in order to quickly resolve the issue based on the information that will be provided by the relevant officials and experts on tax matters affecting the two countries.

My proposal is to deal with this quickly, but how much time do we have to do that? Let us set an agenda going backwards. Let us set a deadline, for example Thursday next, to deal with this matter, if we still have time.

I do not really appreciate Mr. Menzies telling us that the bill was drafted by smart people and that we should pass it without question. I do not doubt it was, but we nevertheless might want clarification on some aspects. It can be done very quickly if smart people appear as witnesses.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal John Maloney

It has to be unanimous.

Mr. Cannan.

December 4th, 2007 / 4 p.m.

Conservative

Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Perhaps you could call for the vote and see whether it is unanimous.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal John Maloney

Minister Emerson is with us. I believe, if there's no unanimous consent going to be attained, we might as well defer this until Thursday. Instead of wasting more time while the minister is with us, our time might be better spent questioning the minister.

4 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Yes, you're right, Mr. Chair, but I think it's important to direct staff on what we're doing on Thursday. It's very clear that we don't have unanimous consent on this. We understand that time is of the essence, but at the same time, it's a 44-page bill that has not received any scrutiny.

What I would suggest, Mr. Chair, is that we get the clause-by-clause analysis done by the department au plus sacrant, tonight. I'm willing to read through it.

We have the departmental witnesses on Thursday. That may well be adequate for us to do our due diligence, but we need the clause-by-clause analysis; that, I think, is fundamental. When we're talking about a 44-page tax treaty, we have to do the scrutiny that's required for something like that.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal John Maloney

I'm going to call the question, unless there's any more clarification as to what exactly you want our staff to do for Thursday.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Pallister Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

I want a recorded vote on Mr. Menzies' motion, please.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal John Maloney

Our legislative clerk advises that the motion is not in order unless there is unanimous consent. It's rather apparent that there is not unanimous consent.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Pallister Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

How is that apparent?

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal John Maloney

Mr. Julian has expressed his lack of consent, and I'm not sure where Mr. Cardin is coming from, but I think he has some reservations as well.

There has to be a consensus. I read the consensus as the....

Mr. Dhaliwal, can we defer this?

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC

Yes, I'm going to bring a motion to defer this item until Thursday, and I would like to ask the question, because we have the minister here.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal John Maloney

I've already been told that it's out of order because there isn't unanimous consent as I see it—

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC

It's not on this motion.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal John Maloney

Yes, I realize it's not on this motion.

Does the committee consent that we will defer this until Thursday, two days from now?

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

Mr. Chairman, I have a suggestion, if I could. I'll be brief.

For any of the questions or concerns that obviously Mr. Cardin or Mr. Julian have, I wonder if it may help to speed things up on Thursday if they would try to get those concerns to ministry or departmental staff tomorrow morning. Maybe those specific questions or concerns then could be addressed and things would flow quicker on Thursday.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal John Maloney

Very good. There is consensus.

Mr. Julian.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

On that item, could I move, then, that this committee request a clause-by-clause analysis of the bill? It hasn't been clear yet, so let's make it clear.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal John Maloney

Okay.

I'm looking for my officials here.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

We've been told that because we haven't requested it, we haven't gotten it. So if we make a formal request, that will speed things up. If we get it tonight or tomorrow morning, then we can bring it on Thursday. I don't understand what the resistance is to the clause-by-clause.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal John Maloney

Make that motion.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Okay. I move that the committee request the clause-by-clause analysis of Bill S-2..

(Motion agreed to)

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

That's great. It was a good precedent, Mr. Chair.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal John Maloney

Minister Emerson, I'm going to ask you to come to the table with your officials. Thank you very much for attending today.

You're familiar with our routine. We have roughly seven to ten minutes for your opening remarks—and perhaps you'd like to introduce your team—and then we'll go to questioning.

4:05 p.m.

Vancouver Kingsway B.C.

Conservative

David Emerson ConservativeMinister of International Trade

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm accompanied by John Gero, our chief trade negotiator; Francine Côté is our chief financial professional here; Ian Burney is responsible for bilateral trade negotiations; Stewart Beck is our senior executive responsible for investment; and Alex Bugailiskis is our ADM responsible for the Americas. Those are the officials who are here.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal John Maloney

Proceed with your presentation, sir.