Evidence of meeting #16 for International Trade in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was we've.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Carol Nelder-Corvari  Director, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance
Dean Beyea  Senior Chief, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance
Vernon MacKay  Director, Investment Trade Policy Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Pierre Bouchard  Acting Director General, International and Intergovernmental Labour Affairs, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Dean Knudson  Director General, Americas, Department of the Environment
Matthew Kronby  Director General, Trade Law Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Ladies and gentlemen, we will begin the 16th meeting of this session of the Standing Committee on International Trade.

Today we're going to begin our review of Bill C-24, an act to implement the Free Trade Agreement between Canada and the Republic of Peru, the Agreement on the Environment between Canada and the Republic of Peru, and the Agreement on Labour Cooperation between Canada and the Republic of Peru.

We're going to start our review of this bill by having a review with department officials who have been particularly involved with this and can give members some background and answer questions. I understand we're going to have just one opening statement. Is that right, Carol?

We're very pleased to have back to the committee a number of people who have been here before. I'll just read them out.

First of all, from the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, we have Matthew Kronby, director general, trade law bureau; Cameron MacKay, director, regional trade policy division, Americas; and Vernon MacKay, director, investment trade policy division. From the Department of Finance, we have Dean Beyea, who has been with us before. And from the Department of the Environment, we have Dean Knudson. And I see Pierre Bouchard as well.

I have saved Carol Nelder-Corvari for last, because I think you were with trade the last time you were here as the chief negotiator of this agreement. Now with the Department of Finance, we have Carol Nelder-Corvari, who will open with some remarks.

May 5th, 2009 / 9:10 a.m.

Carol Nelder-Corvari Director, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance

Thank you, Chair.

Actually, I've been with the Department of Finance all along.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Was it the trade side?

9:10 a.m.

Director, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance

Carol Nelder-Corvari

Thank you for introducing our team here. We're here to respond to any questions you may have about Bill C-24.

We're very pleased to have this opportunity to speak to this bill, which is an act to implement the Canada-Peru trade agreement and parallel agreements on labour and environmental cooperation. This bill implements the legal framework and the legislative amendments required to deepen the economic and social relationship between Peru and Canada.

This initiative dates back to 2002, when Canada and the Andean Community countries agreed to begin discussions on a possible free trade agreement. The government carried out extensive consultations with domestic stakeholders in Canada, which revealed broad support for pursuing an FTA. Through the ensuing exploratory process, it became clear that not all of the Andean countries were prepared to move forward with a comprehensive trade agreement. Peru, however, clearly stood out as a country that was actively engaged in economic reform and seeking free trade partners with priority countries such as Canada.

This FTA is part of the government’s comprehensive efforts under its global commerce strategy to open new opportunities for Canadian businesses. It also forms part of the government’s efforts to strengthen Canada’s engagement in the Americas by fostering economic development and strengthening democracy and security.

The current global economic downturn creates an additional urgency to these efforts for both Canada and Peru--not only as an instrument to increase economic activity, but also as a means to fight trade protectionism that could seriously undermine global recovery efforts. The FTA with Peru will give Canadian exporters, investors, and service providers preferential access to a dynamic economy of approximately 28 million people that has experienced GDP growth of over 9.8% in 2008. This is higher than that experienced by China and India.

In its April 2007 report, entitled “Ten Steps to a Better Trade Policy”, this committee instructed the government to give priority to negotiating defensive FTAs to address competitive disadvantage. This FTA with Peru responds to this recommendation. As it stands, Canadian exporters are at immediate risk of losing markets in Peru due to the entry into force of the trade promotion agreement with the United States on February 1 of this year. Peru has also recently completed trade negotiations with China and EFTA and is currently negotiating with the EU, South Korea, Mexico, and Thailand. Each one of these preferential agreements will erode the competitiveness of Canadian businesses. Our firms and Canadian workers deserve FTAs that address this situation and allow them to compete in international markets on a level playing field.

In the area of market access for goods, Peru will eliminate tariffs on virtually all of Canada’s current exports, including on key products such as wheat, barley, lentils, peas, as well as wood and forestry products, cotton and other fabrics, and a range of industrial machinery. Canadian tariffs on the vast majority of imports from Peru will be eliminated immediately.

On services, the FTA will provide enhanced market access for a range of services in key sectors of interest to Canada. These include mining, energy, and professional services like engineering, architecture, and information technology. Canada’s banking, insurance, and securities sector will also enjoy greater access to the Peruvian marketplace.

The FTA also builds on the existing foreign investment promotion and protection agreements and gains new ground for Canadian investors. Strong obligations ensure the free transfer of capital related to investment, protection against expropriation without adequate and prompt compensation, and non-discriminatory treatment of Canadian investments.The investment chapter of this agreement clarifies that the parties can take non-discriminatory measures to protect legitimate public welfare objectives, such as health, safety, and the environment.

To compete effectively in global markets, Canadian firms must import, export, and increasingly invest abroad to improve efficiencies through global supply chains. Research shows that foreign investment facilitates improved R and D, innovation, and productivity. According to the Export Development Corporation of Canada, every dollar of investment abroad is expected to generate approximately two dollars of additional exports in emerging markets. We are seeing this demonstrated in our relationship with Peru. Our stock of investment stands at $2.4 billion and our exports have more than doubled over the last five years.

Imports from Peru are also increasing, and they are, in many cases, directly related to our mining investments. Seventy-five per cent of the imports from Peru are in the form of metals that are imported for further processing in Canadian facilities or for use in Canadian production.

Given these facts, it is important that we view these FTAs holistically. They are not just about exports; the success of Canadian firms and jobs in Canada is also linked directly to investment and imports. This is the nature of the globally integrated trade. Canadian direct investment abroad connects Canada to global operating platforms that are critical to our competitiveness. These investments need to be protected or they place our companies and Canadian workers at risk. In this regard, the investment provisions of the Canada-Peru FTA, like our many FIPAs, are intended to provide such protection.

On government procurement, the FTA guarantees Canadian suppliers the right to bid on a broad range of goods, services, and construction contracts carried out by Peru’s federal government entities. Opening up government procurement ensures that benefits negotiated in other chapters, such as tariff cuts, are not eroded by barriers behind the border, such as procurement policies that favour domestic suppliers or other trading partners.

Accessing the government market in Peru represents a significant opportunity for Canadian exporters. The total value of government contracts in Peru was approximately $5.6 billion U.S. in 2006. This is projected to increase to $9.8 billion U.S. for 2009. In addition, in response to the current economic downturn, approximately $3 billion U.S. has been set aside for stimulus spending on infrastructure in Peru. American suppliers already have preferential access to this market; our firms deserve the same.

This FTA also includes new provisions on trade-related cooperation and commitments to support corporate social responsibility and prevent corruption. These commitments complement Canada’s broader efforts, which include the following:

First, CIDA has helped to create, and continues to support, the Peru Office of the Ombudsman, which monitors the rule of law and protects human rights.

Second, the government’s new CSR strategy will enhance the ability of Canadian mining, oil, and gas companies to meet and exceed their social and environmental risks while operating abroad by creating a new office of the extractive sector CSR counsellor to assist in dispute resolution; developing a new CSR centre of excellence to provide information to companies; offering continuing CIDA assistance for capacity-building in developing countries; and promoting internationally recognized guidelines for CSR performance and reporting.

Third, the development of Peru’s mining tool kit for aboriginal communities–adapted from the Canadian version–is an example of cooperation between Canada and Peru on CSR activities that involved over 60 stakeholders. The tool kit attempts to help communities get a better grasp of the risks and opportunities of extractive industries and, in so doing, help mitigate social conflict;

Fourth, Canada is also supporting Peru’s implementation of the Extractive Industries Transparency Initiative, or EITI, through the Multi Donor Trust Fund. The EITI is a global initiative that supports improved revenue transparency through the verification and full publication of company payments and government revenues from oil, gas, and mining.

Fifth, the Prime Minister’s announcement at the Summit of the Americas to commence a five-year technical assistance program to assist our free trade partners in the Americas is also supportive of our CSR efforts. This is essential to ensure that both Peru and Canada can fully access the benefits of the FTA.

Canadian companies operating in Peru have made CSR a key objective and have been leaders in Peru’s foreign investment community. For example, Canadian mining companies provided transport and machinery as emergency assistance immediately following the August 2007 earthquake in Peru.

Moreover, Canadian companies, such as Scotiabank, invest in communities in Peru by supporting poor children and women through housing, nutrition, and health initiatives. Export Development Canada reinforces these efforts through its own commitment to CSR, which includes regular review of its human rights processes and ongoing engagement of stakeholders, including Canadian companies and civil society.

The Labour Cooperation Agreement will also help strengthen labour rights and the protection of workers. Peru has committed to ensuring that its laws respect high standards of labour rights, including the International Labour Organization’s 1998 declaration on fundamental principles and rights at work. This declaration covers the right to freedom of association, collective bargaining, the abolition of child labour, the elimination of compulsory labour, and the elimination of discrimination.

The labour agreement opens up new pathways for cooperation. Canada is offering its resources and expertise to help Peru fully implement this agreement, and the government has announced a $1 million labour-related cooperation program.

With respect to the environment, both countries have committed to pursuing high levels of environmental protection. Special focus is being given to corporate social responsibility and the preservation of biodiversity, which is an important issue for Peru, given that it is home to some of the world’s most diverse biological resources. Canada is committed to working with Peru and Canadian companies to help protect and conserve these resources.

Mr. Chair, I’d like to conclude by noting that Peru has achieved remarkable economic progress in recent years. This success has reinforced social progress with a decline in poverty rates, a halving of infant mortality rates, and a significant advancement of the role of women in the workplace and in political office.

Even in the face of the current economic crisis, Peru is still expected to grow by 3.5% this year. We have a growing and mutually beneficial relationship with Peru, and this FTA will deepen and solidify these benefits. This agreement has the support of key exporters and investors across Canada and responds directly to this committee’s call for the negotiation of defensive FTAs in a timely manner.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We would be pleased to answer any questions you may have.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Thank you very much. That was a great briefing.

We're going to start a round of questions. We're going to try to stick to seven-minute rounds so that we can get everybody in today. We've got a full house.

I'm going to start with Mr. Cannis. It's seven minutes for questions and answers. I think everybody's familiar with the procedure.

Go ahead, Mr. Cannis.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, panel, and welcome.

What is the average income of a Peruvian person? What is the average income per year?

Maybe when you get it, you can send us a note. We'd appreciate it.

9:20 a.m.

Director, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Send us a note.

First of all, I've got nothing against mining, but I think 80% of your presentation, Ms. Nelder-Corvari, was mining, mining, mining, and more mining, and then extraction, extraction, extraction. As I said, I just noted that. I want to also note for the record that I have nothing against mining. I think it's a wonderful trade and practice, provided it's done right.

You mentioned something early in your presentation about how it would have hindered global recovery. I think you're applying that statement given today's circumstances, not when the process of negotiating free trade commenced in 2002, as you said.

Would you say you just added that now onto the presentation, that it will hinder--let me quote you--“global recovery efforts”, given the circumstances of what's occurring today globally? Would you say that?

9:25 a.m.

Director, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance

Carol Nelder-Corvari

Thank you for that question.

Having worked in Canadian trade policy for over 25 years, I think I can say that the objective of diversifying export markets has always been key to Canada. It has been a struggle, but it has always been a key objective. The government now has in place a comprehensive global commerce strategy to try to pursue that objective more effectively.

Exploratory talks began in 2002, but the negotiations with Peru did not begin formally until July 2007. At that point there was already an urgency to this work, not only to provide new opportunities for our businesses but to counteract the risks of losing the business we have, because of the U.S.-Peru free trade agreement that came into effect.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Theirs came in before ours.

9:25 a.m.

Director, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance

Carol Nelder-Corvari

February 1, only a few months ago. The economic crisis that we're experiencing now certainly adds additional urgency to our overall efforts in this regard.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Would you say that we've lost a bit of bargaining power, given that the U.S. has ratified its agreement with Peru?

9:25 a.m.

Director, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance

Carol Nelder-Corvari

Well, we've completed the negotiations at this point. As part of our effort, we had an eye on where the Americans were in their process with Peru, and that certainly had a lot to do with our efforts to pursue this in a timely manner.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

I'm only commenting on that because I know that when we were negotiating with the CAFTA, we kind of missed out and the Americans ratified it. Then, of course, the pendulum swung in somebody else's favour, not ours.

Can you tell me why Peru stood out? You mentioned in your statement that “Peru stood out”, if I may quote you. Can you be a bit more specific as to why Peru stood out?

9:25 a.m.

Director, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance

Carol Nelder-Corvari

Well, in the last few years Peru has been engaged in macro-economic reforms, getting its fiscal house in order, opening up its borders. As you can see, we're not the only free trade partner it has been actively engaged with but clearly the U.S. was a priority, and Peru identified Canada as a priority after the U.S.

This is an extensive exercise. Their dance card is fairly full on the free trade front, and they've been very aggressive. It's part of what we have to consider when we look at our interests there.

I know you're saying mining, mining, mining. I didn't mean to stress only mining. We have lots of interests in Peru. Scotiabank is the second or third largest bank in Peru. If you get to the airport in Lima and take a taxi out, there's a Scotiabank ATM on almost every corner. We have a presence. We're respected there. Our companies are respected there. There has been a concerted effort with our embassies and our investors to promote and work with the Peruvian government in its efforts at economic reform.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

I'm really pleased to hear that. I think that's positive news in light of what you mentioned, that in negotiations with the EU, it seems Peru is very proactive.

I guess Peru is dealing on a bilateral basis with the commission as a whole. Is that how it's moving forward?

9:25 a.m.

Director, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance

Carol Nelder-Corvari

Yes. Like Canada, the EU started with exploratories with all of the Andean Community and decided that it wasn't able to move forward with the whole community and is now negotiating with Colombia and Peru. That's my understanding.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Is there a disadvantage for Canadians negotiating with Peru, for example, given that it's also negotiating with this humongous partnership over there in Europe?

9:25 a.m.

Director, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance

Carol Nelder-Corvari

Well, we're done at this point. We had our eye on those complexities, as I said, and when you're negotiating arrangements like this, yes, you're concerned about larger partners that are already in there or are going in.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

How did we fare with those negotiations?

9:30 a.m.

Director, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance

Carol Nelder-Corvari

We did very well with Peru. This is a very strong agreement. It's supported by Canadian industry across the board. I don't know of any opposition to this agreement from sectors in the Canadian economy.

Our trade is fairly complementary. As I tried to emphasize in my opening statement, 75% of what we import relates to our investments down there, and the goods are coming back here either for further processing in Canadian facilities or as an input for Canadian production. It was a very complementary relationship. There were sensitivities on both sides on agriculture, and those were dealt with in a very balanced manner. I think overall this is a very good agreement for Canadians.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Thank you. I think that pretty much wraps it up. I can't imagine that anybody has any more questions than that.

Do you want to move to clause-by-clause?

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

[Inaudible--Editor]

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Mr. Julian may have a question.

We'll go to Mr. Guimond.

9:30 a.m.

Bloc

Claude Guimond Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will ask you a few questions about the economic impact.

The trade flows between Quebec and Peru represent 0.14%. In Quebec, we are talking about a $174 million negative trade balance. I would imagine that before launching such an undertaking, you have made an assessment of what it could represent for Canada on the economic level.

Could you share with us some figures in order to explain to us what could be the impact of a free trade agreement between Canada and Peru, given that Quebec has a negative trade balance with that country?