International Trade Committee on May 5th, 2009

[Matthew Kronby]

To clarify, I don't think I said that the loss of profits would be fair game. I think I said the opposite, in fact.

To be clear, the annex is an integral part of the treaty. As a matter of law, it's part of the treaty. The annex was included, as I mentioned earlier, I believe, to elaborate on the considerations that a tribunal would have to take into account and that an investor would have to establish in order to make a claim for indirect expropriation. It was building on experience that Canada and other countries have had under investment arbitration over the past, roughly, 15 years.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Go ahead, Mr. Malo, one quick one.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

I need some clarifications following the question asked by Mr. Guimond earlier.

Madam Nelder-Corvari, you told us that without an agreement, there would be a loss of market shares. Could you tell us whether you have indeed witnessed in the last few years a loss of market for Canadian corporations in Peru?

I ask this question because if indeed these are free trade agreements that enable us to avoid losing market shares, I wonder why, when we have NAFTA and the FTA with the United States, we have noticed in the past few years a rather substantial loss of our market share.

I have another question relating to what Mr. Guimond was asking you. Do you reckon that if we negotiate bilateral agreements, when an agreement is finally reached at the WCO, these bilateral agreements will have paramountcy over anything that could be negotiated multilaterally at the WCO?

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

I think we'll try to answer that very briefly, if we can. There's a lot of background that needs to be covered before we can get to where we're going.

If you could summarize that for us very quickly, it would be helpful. Thank you.

[Carol Nelder-Corvari]

Just quickly, the U.S. agreement with Peru came into effect in February. We don't have the trade data yet.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

In terms of what we have presently, did you notice a market loss due to the fact that an agreement had not been signed with Peru?

[Dean Beyea]

On the import trade data, which are very accurate, there's a two-month lag.

On export trade data, which are significantly less accurate—and in fact we have to use the data from the other country—there's a longer lag.

Because the U.S. agreement came into effect February 1, it's difficult to say—

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

I am not talking about the agreement with...

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Mr. Malo, let him answer the question.

[Dean Beyea]

It's very difficult to say whether or not we've lost market share in Peru, given that the U.S. agreement came into effect so close to where we are now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

All right, I think that's all we're going to get to today. Thank you.

Peter, I think we've had—

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Okay. I wont have an answer.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Mr. Chair, I just want to ask, through you, if we can get those figures.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

On a point of order what about the other parties here, Mr. Chair?

You said at 10:30 the meeting was over. If you're going to open it up for another round, then open it up for every political party, and everybody can take their turn.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

I think we've had sufficient—

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Come on.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

I asked for the figures. I'm just repeating that request, thank you.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

No, that's not the point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Thanks, Mr. Keddy.

With that, I will adjourn this portion of the meeting and thank our witnesses again for a super job, which I do appreciate, and committee members for their questions, for the most part.

[Carol Nelder-Corvari]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Thank you again.

We will adjourn for two minutes while the witnesses leave the table, and return in camera in about three minutes.

[Proceedings continue in camera]