Evidence of meeting #36 for International Trade in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was support.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jacques Pomerleau  Executive Director, Canada Pork International
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Jean-Marie David

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Welcome to the 36th meeting of the Standing Committee on International Trade for this session of Parliament.

We are going to begin today with our study of Canada and South America trade relations, with particular reference to Canada and Colombia.

By way of housekeeping, it appears we have one witness today. We could probably conclude this within one hour. I suggest we'll probably go to 12:10, at which point we will go to committee business. We have a couple of motions to consider. In all likelihood, we will adjourn a little early today. I'll aim for 12:30, and we'll hope we can see that time.

To continue with our discussion of Canada-Colombia, we have a witness from Canada Pork International. Jacques Pomerleau is the executive director.

Welcome. You're familiar with the proceedings. We appreciate your being here. Our members are all present now, so we can begin. If you would be kind enough to begin with an opening statement, then members will follow with questions.

Monsieur Pomerleau.

11:10 a.m.

Jacques Pomerleau Executive Director, Canada Pork International

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, gentlemen. Let me introduce our organization first. Canada Pork International is the export market development agency of the Canadian pork industry. We are a joint initiative of the Canadian Pork Council and the Canadian Meat Council. Our membership includes national and provincial hog producers' associations, as well as federally registered pork packing establishments, as well as trading companies.

It should be noted that more than 50% of the pork produced in Canada is being exported, and in spite of the crisis, that should not change over the next few years. Canada is the world's third largest pork exporter, accounting for 20% of the world pork trade, so we are a significant player. In 2008, Canadian pork exports to over 100 countries amounted to more than one million tonnes, and they were worth $2.7 billion.

Our industry is quite proud of the fact that it has been able to achieve an effective market diversification. While more than a decade ago the U.S. market accounted for more than 75% of our total exports, it is now barely 30%, and the U.S. ranks second in value behind Japan. An essential factor for our success has been the opening of new market opportunities, whether through the Uruguay Round, which introduced us to new markets such as South Korea and the Philippines, or regional trade agreements, including the one with Mexico.

We are thankful for being given the opportunity today to express our views on the trade relations between Canada and Colombia.

While population growth is relatively high in Colombia, the per capita income on average has also been increasing, and as is so often the case with developing countries experiencing economic growth, we are witnessing greater expenditures on food, including a rising demand for meat. Given these conditions, Canada has seen increased pork exports to Colombia, more than doubling in quantity over the past ten years, and of particular interest to our quest to achieve greater value-added exports, it has grown by five times its value.

To give you some figures, in 2008 Canadian pork exports to Colombia amounted to 3,570 tonnes, worth $5.1 million. In the first nine months of this year, our exports to Colombia have reached 2,800 tonnes, worth $4.2 million, which is up by 19% in volume and 32% in value over the same period in 2008.

Over the years we were able to get Colombia to recognize our plant inspection and export certification procedures, which means that in practice all Canadian federally registered establishments can export to Colombia. Just one year ago, Canada Pork International hosted an incoming mission of seven major Colombian pork buyers. Last July, in collaboration with the Canadian embassy in Bogota, CPI co-sponsored a technical seminar that attracted most Colombian buyers. Those two activities have allowed Canadian pork exporters to gain a much better understanding of the Colombian pork requirements and to develop the personal relationships required to take advantage of new opportunities in that country—and they are significant.

The conditions of economic growth and improved political stability in Colombia, combined with a good knowledge of the local trading conditions, lead us to believe that Canada can look to continued growth in trade, including pork, if our industry is able to retain favourable terms of access relative to our U.S. competitors. Failure to do so will mean that Canadian pork is very likely to be out of that market for a considerable period of time.

Traditionally, Canada has been the largest foreign pork supplier to the Caribbean, to Central America, and to Colombia. Recently, our trade position has been seriously eroded by a series of free trade agreements concluded with the U.S., to the point that the Americans have now become the largest foreign pork suppliers in Central America and in Colombia.

Colombia's WTO binding tariffs on pork range from 70% to 108%, while the applied tariff rates range from 22% to 30% on some products. The U.S.-Colombia free trade agreement provides for the complete phasing out of tariffs on most key pork products within five years. This would provide a significant advantage to our U.S. competitors for several years.

The Canadian deal with Colombia calls for the phase-out over five years of only the in-quota tariff. It will require another eight years to see the effective elimination of duties above the tariff quota.

While the tariff quota is 5,000 tonnes for the first year--a level that is at least 50% greater than our exports in 2008--and will increase by 3% per year, we see enough opportunity for even greater growth in export volumes that the U.S. will maintain a significant total advantage for several years.

As you are likely aware, the Colombia-U.S. free trade agreement has not yet been implemented, and it remains quite unclear as to when the United States Congress will vote on it. However, from contact our industry has had with U.S. industry officials and policy-makers, it seems that the U.S.-Colombia agreement will be passed and put into effect by the current Congress by 2012. It is therefore very much our hope that Canada will pass into law its own trade liberalization agreement with Colombia as soon as possible so that we get a head start on reducing Colombian import charges on Canadian pork. The sooner we are able to implement our own agreement, the less will be U.S. tariff advantages in both size and duration.

Our industry is currently in a difficult situation and cannot afford to lose any market of significance, such as Colombia. Therefore, Canada Pork International strongly supports the passage of the Canada-Colombia free trade agreement at the earliest opportunity.

Just to take one more minute of the committee's time, we wish to bring to your attention that the European Union and the Republic of Korea just signed a free trade agreement. We expect that this development will revive interest in the United States in implementing the deal they completed with South Korea last year.

South Korea is Canada's fourth largest market for pork exports, and our sales are on track to exceed $130 million this year. We were in Korea less than one month ago. All the Korean agents of the Canadian exporters were unanimous in saying that there are very good opportunities developing for a wide range of products, but mostly for value-added products such as chilled pork. It happens that Canada's two principal competitors in the Korean pork market are the European Union and the United States. Here, again, Canada has a significant interest in not being left behind.

Our South Korean contacts made it very clear that without an agreement with South Korea, the Canadian pork industry would be almost out of that market within two years. Therefore, we urge the committee to support efforts to complete and implement the Canada-South Korea free trade agreement as early as possible.

Thank you for your time. I am available to answer any questions you may have.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Thank you, Mr. Pomerleau.

We will begin questioning with Mr. Cannis, who I think is going to share his time with Mr. Brison.

I think the members were very intent on hearing your remarks.

We'll probably conclude our questioning with one round, so if you have more than one who wants to speak, maybe you could share the time. I think we'll have ten minutes each and do it in one round so we can get to the other business on the agenda.

Mr. Cannis, you begin.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.

In discussing the Canada-Colombia agreement, all of a sudden you closed with a very powerful statement, which was that we should get a Canada-South Korea free trade agreement as early as possible. That was a very nice close. I've always been an advocate who has said that there's business out there for Canada.

Let's get out there. Let's be proactive. Let's get our fair share of the pie, even with the trouble spots that exist out there, such as Colombia. We know it. We recognize it. We've spoken to people on both sides of the argument. I think you'll find a lot of people, me being one, who say that it's best to be there to work with the countries towards a resolution and an improvement in lifestyle, human rights, and so on as opposed to staying away. In other words, let's show them how we do it in Canada.

You mentioned in one of your presentations, sir, that you hosted an incoming mission of seven major Colombian pork buyers. That's wonderful, and I think that's the way things should be done. There used to be a program called PEMD some years ago. You're smiling; obviously, you're very familiar with it. That was one venue whereby a government, irrespective of political stripes, helped Canadian businesses get a share of the market.

When I chaired the committee, it was recommended that we look at such a program or bring such a program back. I don't know if it's being discussed.

These expenses you undertook to host this incoming mission, how were they covered? In addition, are there initiatives on behalf of the government that support the industry in getting its share? Because of course if your industry or other industries are doing well, it becomes a revenue stream for a government in however many ways.

That's one of my questions, if you could elaborate on that.

11:20 a.m.

Executive Director, Canada Pork International

Jacques Pomerleau

Since the old days of PEMD-I, the program has changed names many times. It's been named AIMS, CAFI, and now it's called AgriMarketing.

Those expenses were covered under the agri-marketing program. CPI has received some financial support from the program, but our contract has been terminated--not terminated, but we now have access to the international pork marketing fund, which is a $17 million envelope up front that we received last August, and it's for four years. It gives us the ability to plan on a four-year period rather than having to come and request funds every year.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

I'm very pleased to hear that.

My last question, before I turn it over to my esteemed colleague, Mr. Brison, has to do with the European Union and their agreements—the one that was referred to—with the Republic of Korea. It has been noted over the years that some of their commodities have been subsidized to some degree. It was always very difficult, whether it's the wines or the olive oils or whatever.

They're very proactive, and so they should be. We should be as well. But all of a sudden they're front and centre with the Republic of Korea, and the United States is right there as well. Are we going to be competing when we go, hopefully as soon as possible, to do a Canada-South Korea free trade agreement with the Europeans, who tend to bend the rules a little bit?

Can you give us your view on that?

11:20 a.m.

Executive Director, Canada Pork International

Jacques Pomerleau

Usually the countries that sign an agreement with the European Union make sure they are not subject to export subsidies down the road, and I would suspect the Koreans did the same thing. Talking about the European subsidies, they do have export subsidies, you're right. On top of that, they also have a subsidy for private storage. They have a few things in there.

But talking about free trade agreements, the Canada-EU free trade agreement would also be very helpful for us, because we have been basically cut off from the EU for years, and it's only recently that we had the very first Canadian plant approved for the European Union. To our surprise, they are doing very well. We should have a second one approved in the next couple of weeks, and there are more to come.

We would also strongly support a Canada-EU free trade agreement.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

I'm pleased to hear that.

Mr. Brison.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Thank you.

One of the things we're hearing from Canadian agricultural groups that support the ratification of this agreement is that there is quite a synergy between the two countries in terms of the areas where we have a comparative advantage and the areas where Colombia has a comparative advantage. There's not a robust, significant pork industry, for instance, in Colombia. That's an example of that. Whenever you can have agreements between countries where there is not a lot of overlap in terms of areas of focus economically, that's positive.

I have a quick question on another file that I know you've been deeply engaged in, and that is country-of-origin labelling with the U.S. I appreciate it. I was in D.C. the week before last again, and we met with some members of the administration and raised the issue again. There doesn't seem to be any appetite in the U.S., on either end of Pennsylvania Avenue, in diluting support for this at this time, but it's having a significant effect on the cost of the U.S. groceries. It's $3 billion a year, according to the American groceries association.

What effects are you seeing currently on your members, and what effects do you see for the future? What can we be doing to build natural allegiances between those in Canada, like you, who are against country-of-origin labelling and those in the U.S. who are against country-of-origin labelling? What could we be doing more strategically to defend our interest?

11:25 a.m.

Executive Director, Canada Pork International

Jacques Pomerleau

I have to mention that it's primarily the Canadian Pork Council that is handling the country-of-origin labelling, but I can still comment on your question. The impact is really on the exports of live hogs. As you've noticed, they were cut almost by half over the previous year. The indirect impact is that by having fewer hogs go the U.S., there are more hogs being killed in Canada, which means that we have more pork to export--which is an odd way of doing it, but that's the way it's happening.

What I could mention this morning is that the Canadian Meat Council and the Canadian Pork Council are working on an initiative to develop a better relationship with their American counterparts and American policy-makers.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Thank you.

Monsieur Guimond.

11:25 a.m.

Bloc

Claude Guimond Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will be sharing my time with my colleague Mr. Desnoyers.

Good morning, Mr. Pomerleau. Welcome. Mr. Pomerleau and I have a common background, as he comes from the Beauce and I come from the Lower St. Lawrence region, so we are both from rural regions. In addition, we have some agricultural friends in common in my riding. So I am pleased to be able to speak with you for the next five minutes.

I would like to ask you a few questions about the pork industry as it stands today. Having come from the agricultural and union sectors, I have seen close hand what has gone on in the pork industry over the past 15 years. Pork production was a real jewel in both Quebec and Canadian export markets. Unfortunately, we have no choice but to acknowledge that things have changed because of the crisis in pork production coupled with the economic crisis, etc.

I would like to hear your opinion on the current state of our beautiful jewel, the pork industry, and on its future.

11:25 a.m.

Executive Director, Canada Pork International

Jacques Pomerleau

That is a question worth millions of dollars.

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Claude Guimond Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

I know that you know this.

11:30 a.m.

Executive Director, Canada Pork International

Jacques Pomerleau

Yes, I could talk at great length, but you have only two minutes.

As for exports, I would say that the future is bright but not in the short term. Currently we are witnessing a contraction in production throughout the world, and not just in Canada or in United States. We see the same thing occurring in Europe and just about everywhere else. This is also happening in Asia, whether it be Japan or Korea. However, production levels are resuming in China and Russia is hoping to become a major exporter over the next few years. I wish them luck, but at any rate, time will tell.

In the medium and long term, its future may be bright, particularly if we reach an agreement within the WTO, which would enable us to further reduce tariffs for certain markets, which would also enable us to renegotiate the Japanese import system.

But how do we get to this point? How do we make it possible for our producers to survive long enough so that they can get to this point and turn a profit? That is the big question.

I know that all parties have agreed that we need to help the pork sector as much as possible. I know that further to negotiations with the Canada Pork Council, the government has implemented a transition plan for those producers who wish to leave the industry as well as a loans program to make survival possible for those who wish to remain.

Call options, either at the Chicago Stock Exchange or elsewhere, appear to show that there will probably be an improvement in the spring. Nevertheless, we thought this would also happen in the spring of 2008, and we were hit by the H1N1 flu.

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Claude Guimond Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

I know about that as well.

11:30 a.m.

Executive Director, Canada Pork International

Jacques Pomerleau

So far, we have not been able to find a reliable crystal ball.

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Claude Guimond Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Last winter we talked about the U.S. COOL legislation. We also discussed the traceability system that we work with in Quebec, something that we are seeing more and more in the rest of Canada. Committee members even travelled to Washington and put the subject of traceability on the table. We felt that the people there were interested.

Could traceability from the farm gate to the table be a tool that could help your export industry to be even better equipped in order to continue exporting?

11:30 a.m.

Executive Director, Canada Pork International

Jacques Pomerleau

Certainly, especially for very sophisticated markets such as Japan where, in the medium term, this may become a sales or purchase requirement.

It is not only a matter of traceability. We need to promote our entire production and inspection system more intensely, especially since we are well ahead of just about every other country in the world. However, we do not brag about this or at least we do not talk about this enough. One of the things that we will be doing with the funds we have been given will be to determine all of the factors, draw every possible and imaginable comparison with our competitors, establish our strong points, the good things that we can promote, as well as our witnesses, so that we can determine where we need to make improvements.

We are in the process of developing a strategic plan that we will be submitting to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food by early February. This will contain our four-year plan.

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Claude Guimond Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

I was surprised to find out, in listening to your presentation, that your exports to the United States have dropped from 75% to 30%. What explains this decline?

11:30 a.m.

Executive Director, Canada Pork International

Jacques Pomerleau

We diversified. That does not mean that our sales to the U.S. declined during this period. Indeed, they doubled, but we also worked very hard to open up all the other markets in the world. Fortunately, moreover, because otherwise our situation would not be what it now is. Market access has always been our main priority. Without this access, promotion is impossible.

It is extremely fortunate that we invested in the Australian, New Zealand and Filipino markets and that we worked so hard to do this. During the same period, we multiplied our sales with Japan tenfold. Our main purpose was always to be less dependent on the American market by diversifying. Indeed, we were too dependent. I think that we have been quite successful.

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Luc Desnoyers Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

Mr. Pomerleau, your document indicates that the American Congress has not yet voted in favour of this agreement, but you appear to be saying that it will do so shortly. I do not know where you get this information, but according to the opinions that we are receiving, the position of Barack Obama as regards all of the human rights violations in Colombia is that this problem needs to be resolved. I do not know whether you were aware of that.

11:35 a.m.

Executive Director, Canada Pork International

Jacques Pomerleau

Indeed, our message is that we do not want to take any chances. If the Americans—

11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Luc Desnoyers Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

When all is said and done, you are in favour of a free trade agreement at any cost.

11:35 a.m.

Executive Director, Canada Pork International

Jacques Pomerleau

The agreement has been reached.