Evidence of meeting #40 for International Trade in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was colombia.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
The meeting will now come to order.
I guess we will all have seen--
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON
Mr. Chairman--I must apologize, sir, to intervene--I didn't finish my point.
With respect to all the unions' comments that were made, I don't have a problem, sir. The problem I have is repetitiveness. I think we get paid handsomely by Canadians, and if we could streamline this....
If sixty unions are going to tell us the same sixty messages, I personally don't want to hear it. And I'm being respectful; I'd rather hear from a group of them. From my understanding and my past experience, generally it's the same message, sir. I don't want a repeat.
I say this respectfully.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
Fair enough.
I think the clerk's done a very good job so far in balancing it and providing different points of view. We'll continue in that vein.
Well, with some minor changes, we're going to start this meeting today, our 40th meeting of the Standing Committee on International Trade in this session of Parliament.
As you've noticed with regard to our visitors from Medellín, Colombia, Mr. Walter Navarro, president of the Industry Union of Professional Employees of the Public Utilities, was unable to.... Well, he was here, but we weren't able to provide translation. We're going to try to rebook that one, probably at an early date, to hear from some of the unions in Colombia.
I'm going to now introduce, from the Groupe de recherche sur les activités minières en Afrique, Étienne Roy-Grégoire, who will give an opening statement, as well as Jamie Kneen, communications and outreach coordinator from MiningWatch Canada.
We have some time today, so I will give you all the time you need for opening statements, if you would both be prepared to give opening statements. Then we'll proceed with questioning by the committee.
Monsieur Roy-Grégoire, if you would care to provide an opening statement, we'll then move to Mr. Kneen.
11:15 a.m.
Étienne Roy-Grégoire Member, Groupe de recherche sur les activités minières en Afrique
Good morning.
We are very pleased to appear before this committee today.
My name is Étienne Roy-Grégoire. I am a member of the Groupe de recherche sur les activités minières en Afrique or GRAMA at the Université du Québec at Montreal. My research looks at the role of extractive investments in countries undergoing a conflict or in a post-conflict situation.
I am accompanied by Jamie Kneen, education coordinator for MiningWatch Canada. We are pleased to bring some context to your discussions on trade relations between Canada and Colombia. However, we also hope to have the opportunity to talk in detail about Bill C-23 when it will be studied by this committee.
Our presentation concerns the results of research in 2008 recently published under the title “Lands and conflicts: resource extraction, human rights and corporate social responsibility: Canadian companies in Colombia.” This research was funded by a consortium of Canadian civil organizations and is available on the Web in English, French and Spanish. You also have copies in French and English.
In the report, which is the result of research on the ground conducted over a number of months by MiningWatch Canada, CENSAT Agua Viva—a Colombian organization—and Inter Pares, we look at four cases of Canadian investments in the extractive industry in Colombia. We will refer to the guiding principles developed by the UN special representative on human rights and transnational companies, John Ruggie.
The Canada-Colombia Free Trade Agreement concerns both trade and direct foreign investments. We have concentrated on the issues related to investment. These investments are directed mainly from Canada to Colombia and target specifically, at present, mineral exploration and the acquisition of rights in the mining and oil sectors. The hypothesis underlying the signing of the accord is that, by promoting investment, it will contribute to the development of Colombia; through that very fact, this will minimize the factors behind the conflict.
This hypothesis also seeks, ultimately, a resolution to the Colombian conflict by hoping to improve security, attracting new capital, and thereby taking part in a virtuous circle.
11:20 a.m.
Conservative
Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS
Excuse me, Mr. Chair.
Translation has asked for the witnesses to slow down a little bit.
11:20 a.m.
Member, Groupe de recherche sur les activités minières en Afrique
Excusez.
11:20 a.m.
Conservative
Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Mr. Chair, is this the presentation the witness is making? I don't seem to have an English version of it, if there is one.
11:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
All right. We'll carry on.
Again, I'd ask you to speak a little slower so that translation can keep up. They don't have an English copy of your remarks to use.
11:20 a.m.
Member, Groupe de recherche sur les activités minières en Afrique
No, unfortunately. I will go on if you like, this is a very important aspect. I will go through it slowly.
The hypothesis underlying the signing of the Canada-Colombia Free Trade Agreement is that, by promoting investment, it will contribute to Colombia's development and through that very fact then have a positive impact on the factors behind the armed conflict. The same hypothesis seeks to ensure a resolution to the conflict by hoping to improve security, attracting new capital, and consequently participating in a virtuous circle.
Unfortunately, because of the very nature of the economic realities inherent to the Colombian armed conflict, this hypothesis does not also translate into reality. Our report clearly illustrates the need to assess in a transparent and independent way the impact on human rights, in order to avoid serious human rights violations resulting from extractive investments. Specifically, investments in areas subject to forced displacements are problematic. We have observed this dynamic very closely in our case study of the Sur de Bolivar region in Magdalena Medio.
Between 1994 and 2007, 53,202 individuals were violently displaced from their lands in Sur de Bolivar and 380 people suffered a violent death for political reasons. Despite that, exploration concessions were or have been granted by multinational corporations for a number of mines in the Sur de Bolivar region...
11:20 a.m.
Conservative
11:20 a.m.
Conservative
Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
The translation was breaking up. He just gave some dates there that didn't come across clearly and that I think are important. I didn't quite hear the dates of that displacement.
11:20 a.m.
Member, Groupe de recherche sur les activités minières en Afrique
Between 1994 and 2007, 53,202 individuals were violently displaced from their lands in the Sur de Bolivar region and 380 individuals died a violent death for political reasons. Despite that, the concession agreements for exploration have been granted by multinational corporations, some of which are registered in Canada, for a number of mines in the Sur de Bolivar region.
Our study concluded that such investments ran extremely high risks of benefiting armed groups that had used violence to acquire lands targeted by such investments; promoting the reorganization and reinforcement of previously demobilized paramilitary groups; and, finally, promoting human rights violations committed by such groups against locals and human rights advocates opposed to such investments.
It's important to note that in order to support our conclusions, we drew upon, in particular, reports written by the Colombian Human Rights Ombudsman, an institution that had obtained funding from the Canadian International Development Agency. These reports were developed under the preventive warning system framework or the Sistema de Alertas Tempranas. They are produced periodically to assess the conflict and the risks of serious human rights violations in specific regions. The ombudsman also issues recommendations to the Colombian executive branch in order to prevent future violations, which can include, for example, troop deployments or the allocation of resources to ensure the protection of human rights advocates.
In the Sur de Bolivar region, an association of artisan miners and farmers, FEDEAGROMISBOL, opposes mining investments by transnational corporations. Its directors have received death threats from remobilized paramilitary groups, and the association vice-president, Alejandro Uribe, was murdered, apparently by the Colombian army, in September 2006. The Human Rights Ombudsman currently considers members and directors of FEDEAGROMISBOL run an extremely high risk of selective homicide, massacre or forced displacement.
In order to prevent such things from happening, the ombudsman recommends giving in to the association's request that this area be declared a mining reserve. This would therefore eliminate the possibility of extractive investments in the region, simultaneously eliminating an additional motive for human rights violators.
The possibilities of forced displacement associated with extractive investments are not restricted to the Sur de Bolivar region and are well-documented. Colombia estimates that armed groups—the majority of which are paramilitary groups—have appropriated 6.8 million hectares through violence. For its part, the UN has revealed that paramilitary groups were appropriating lands in order to take advantage of investments in the oil and gas, mining or African palm sectors. This strategy is one of the reasons why the conflict has continued.
We would like to conclude on various elements that we believe are central to the committee's deliberations. The serious risks we identified in our study are, in large part, independent of the behaviour or policies of a specific company. So such risks cannot be mitigated by corporate social responsibility measures. To that extent, the work done by Canada and Colombia to promote corporate social responsibility does not apply, strictly speaking, to this problem and cannot help to resolve it. This is all the more true since as our study shows, the Canadian Embassy in Colombia does not have the mandate to assess the risks faced by Canadian investors requiring its assistance on human rights issues.
We also note that the agreement on workers' rights signed along with the free trade agreement applies only to cases with a trade impact.
In fact, the Canada-Colombia Free Trade Agreement does not contain any mechanisms that specifically take into consideration the types of risks identified in our study. However, there is a real risk that the agreement will reduce the flexibility of Colombia to implement the kind of measures proposed by the Human Rights Ombudsman for the Sur de Bolivar region.
As things currently stand, if a Canadian company were to be stripped of the rights it acquired over a given territory in order to avoid egregious human rights violations or provide victims of a forced displacement with redress, then that might cause an investment dispute pursuant to the free trade agreement. For example, we are anxiously following the process launched by a Canadian mining company against El Salvador pursuant to the free trade agreement it signed with the United States.
The free trade agreement with Colombia might place Canada in a very uncomfortable position, where its economic interests would be pitted against its efforts to promote human rights and conflict resolution. In June 2008, this committee issued a report on the Canada-Colombia Free Trade Agreement. In it, the committee recommended that a competent body conduct an independent, impartial and comprehensive assessment of the repercussions of a human rights accord, a study that would be subjected to scrutiny and validation. We believe that such a study should be conducted before any agreement is implemented. In order to ensure that Canada's policy with regard to Colombia is coherent.
Thank you.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
Thank you.
We'll go now to Mr. Kneen, the communications and outreach coordinator.
Do you have an opening statement?
11:30 a.m.
Jamie Kneen Communications and Outreach Coordinator, MiningWatch Canada
No, sir; Étienne made our collective statement. I'm here to answer questions relating to the institutional framework, and he's presenting as researcher.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
All right.
I hope we can get something from that. It was very quick and a little bit difficult to pick up at times. I'm sorry it was moving along so quickly.
We're going to begin the questioning, then. We'll ask Mr. Brison to pose the first question for the Liberal Party.
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much for appearing before us today.
The alleged violations of Canadian companies and the ties of Canadian companies to forced displacement are very serious allegations. They also occurred without a free trade agreement. They occurred in the absence of labour and environment agreements, which we've been informed by the trade negotiators here are the most robust of any labour and environment agreements Canada has ever signed in any trade agreement, and are in fact the most robust signed between any two sovereign countries in any trade agreement.
Given that these alleged violations by Canadian companies occurred without a trade agreement, do you not welcome a rules-based system to try to strengthen our influence in Colombia on these types of activities?
11:30 a.m.
Member, Groupe de recherche sur les activités minières en Afrique
I would like to clarify the record. The forced displacement and human rights violations that we describe in the Sur de Bolivar region were not committed by Canadian companies, but by Colombian paramilitary groups. Nevertheless, the Colombian paramilitary groups carry out such actions with the clear and documented objective to benefit from eventual investments made in Colombia by Canadians or other foreign nationals. I think that must be said very clearly, and that is why we underscored the fact in our presentation that those risks are not related to the socially responsible investments or policies of a given company. Our concern with the free trade treaty is that it might become an additional barrier for the Colombian government to take the measures to prevent such violations, as was recommended by the Human Rights Ombudsman.
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
The war in Colombia that has been waged for some 40 years began as an ideological war but is now a drug war. It has very little to do with ideology any more. FARC and the former paramilitary are largely drug gangs. People growing up in rural Colombia need to make a living somehow. In the absence of legitimate economic opportunity, they're going to choose what they can make a living from. The last time I checked, the drug gangs didn't have a labour code or an environment code guiding their activities.
The UN Secretary-General's representative, Walter Kalin, acknowledged in November 2008 that there was a high rate of forced displacement in certain parts of the country. But he also said that important developments had taken place since 2006, and noted the constructive role of the constitutional court. He went further and said that the reasons for forced displacement are multiple and complex: lack of respect for international humanitarian law by various armed groups, including guerrilla groups such as FARC and the ELN; the multiplication of armed actors and criminal activities in the wake of recent paramilitary demobilization--in other words, re-mobilizing as drug dealers or gangsters; and threats and pressures to collaborate with the illegal armed groups, narco-trafficking activities, and aerial spraying of crops, to name a few.
He's talking about aerial spraying of crops and forced displacement around drug production, but he's not talking about forced displacement around mining. Canada, by the way, is very good at mining, and our companies are recognized as practising better corporate social responsibility than most companies engaged in extraction activities abroad. But in the absence of legitimate economic trade around such sectors as the extraction sector, people will choose the drug trade as the only way they have to make a living.
Do you not agree that a substantial part, if not the majority, of the displacement occurring in Colombia is a result of the drug trade?
11:35 a.m.
Member, Groupe de recherche sur les activités minières en Afrique
There is no doubt that the drug trade is an important factor. However, the UN also refers to—the references are in the presentation I gave as well as in the English language reports that were handed out to you—the motivations of armed paramilitaries to profit from investments in the mining, oil and African oil palm sectors. That is all well-documented by the UN.
Furthermore, our study also presents the assessments of the Human rights Ombudsman, who clearly identifies investments in the mining and oil sectors as a motivation for armed paramilitaries, particularly in the Sur de Bolivar region.
I share the findings of the UN reporter, but I do not think that there can be any assurances that investments in those areas do not pose a risk of human rights violations. And we are talking about extremely serious violations.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
I met some Colombians living in rural communities, and they told me why they initially entered the paramilitary, and in another case why they entered FARC. They said it was the only way they had to make a living.
In the absence of legitimate economic trade in the extraction sector, what would you propose they do? Or would you just suggest they go into the drug trade? Have you done any analysis of forced displacement by the drug trade, or some comparative analysis so we have an idea of who the players really are and who is really doing the forced displacement?
The UN is saying that, overwhelmingly, the forced displacement is occurring as a result of the drug trade and not the extraction sector. Have you compared the economic value of the drug trade to Colombia versus the current economic value of the extraction sector, for example? It would help us put it into perspective.
11:35 a.m.
Communications and Outreach Coordinator, MiningWatch Canada
You're talking about two different things in the sense that the economic value of the drug trade and the economic value of the extractive industries are of themselves not the same as an index of employment or the distribution of that economic activity--and I think the drug trade is probably as highly centralized as the extractive industries in terms of the risks and the benefits.
The other—