Evidence of meeting #40 for International Trade in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was colombia.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
Perhaps I can tell you what my Cape Breton mom used to say: “Ed Holder, you were not a bad guy most of the time. From time to time you were just a little bit of a kid on the edge, but I think you've turned out okay.”
Generally what I'm looking for is an on-balance comment. I think I've heard what you've had to say.
May I just pass it over to Mr. Harris, please.
Thank you.
Conservative
Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Thank you very much.
Mr. Grégoire, in your opening comments you made a statement that from 1994 to 2007 there were about 53,000 people displaced and a number killed. That's a period of 13 years. I think it's fair to say that what results out of these committee meetings and future trade relationships with Colombia will be focusing on the current government and governments to come.
I would have preferred it if you had broken it down into the period pre-Uribe, and the period currently with Uribe. The president was elected in 2002, so it would have been fair to give us some numbers on these types of displacements and people who were killed.
The UN Human Rights Watch folks have stated that things have improved dramatically over the last five or six years in Colombia. The murders are down, and they seem to be on a good path.
I'm just throwing it out that perhaps you should have broken that down, considering we're dealing with the current government. It would have been fair.
To both of you gentlemen, throughout your presentations you use a number of words, such as “suppositions” and “conjectures”; “apparently” the Colombian army assassinated this person; human rights violations “could have been implicit” in this industry”. You use words like “could have”, “may”, “likely to”, “it is possible”, “apparently”, and “potential to”.
Okay. Given all that, I have to ask you this question directly. This will be my one question. Can you state unequivocally that Canadian companies that are engaged in the extraction industry in Colombia are guilty of knowingly being involved in some activities that aid and abet human rights violations?
Yes or no, sir. It's a simple question.
Member, Groupe de recherche sur les activités minières en Afrique
We have addressed this question on several occasions, and the answer is that we cannot give an answer. However, we can say that there are clearly identified risks.
In response to the other part of your question concerning forced displacements, there is something that must be kept in mind. These violations may have occurred, for example, in 1998 or in the early years of 2000, which were the worst years for forced displacements.
There has not yet been any redress for these violations because people have not been able to return to their homes. So that is information that must be kept in mind not only as concerns the rate of displacements, but also the ability or will of the Colombian state to remedy the violations committed against these people.
Conservative
Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Thank you very much.
With all due respect, the question I asked you did demand a yes or no, and you failed to give me that. I'd suggest that given the innuendo and the allegations, both soft and hard, throughout your report, surely, if your report indeed was a result of some intensive study, you would have been able to come to the conclusion unequivocally of whether Canadian companies have knowingly aided and abetted in any way the promotion of...the instance of human rights in any of their activities.
Obviously you cannot answer that yes or no, so I suggest that many of the assertions that you've made in your report in fact.... If you are serious researchers, then your report does a disservice to your efforts.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
December 1st, 2009 / 12:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
All right. We'll conclude at that point.
I want to thank the witnesses. It has been a very interesting morning, and I appreciate your patience with all of the questions and the thoroughness with which you responded.
I have a couple of short housekeeping issues. It will only take a second here....
Okay, we don't have to do it. I'll simply say we're going to continue this on Thursday. We'll continue this discussion then, with our witness list as provided by the Bloc. Hopefully we'll get Mr. Navarro back with translation.
That will conclude the day. Thank you.
The meeting is adjourned.