Evidence of meeting #5 for International Trade in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was decision.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
I'm challenging your decision not to hold a recorded vote on this vote.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
It's not a question of my saying no, Mr. Julian. If you want to have a recorded vote, you have to ask for a recorded vote before the vote is taken. In this case, the clerk did quite clearly count the votes, and it wouldn't be a difficult thing to do. I'm sure with the unanimous consent of the committee, we could record it as such. We know who voted which way. It won't change the vote, Mr. Julian, if that's your intent.
So it's not really my decision here; it's simply the rule that you can't ask for a recorded vote after the vote is taken.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
You want to challenge that decision?
Okay, Mr. Julian is now challenging the chair.
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
He's challenging decision that we can't go back and record a vote after the vote is taken.
Those who wish to sustain the chair, raise your hands.
Conservative
Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Mr. Chair, could I just have clarification from the clerk if the motion is even in order? The fact is that we're following the rules. If not, what's the use of having this 400- to 500-page book that we follow and then make changes?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
Thanks, Mr. Cannan.
This is not debatable. We're in a game. Mr. Julian has challenged the chair on whether or not we should have gone back to attempt to record a vote that had already been taken.
Those who wish to sustain the decision of the chair that the vote had been taken and, therefore, that we can't go back and record the vote, please raise your hands. There are five.
Those opposed? We have six.
All right, the vote was recorded.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Mr. Chair, a recorded vote is that you ask each one of us individually. As you know, we've done this procedure. Actually, prior to your becoming chair of this committee, we did have a number of voice-recorded votes, and simply what that means is each member is then asked how they vote individually. So the members—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
I'm quite aware of what a recorded vote is, Mr. Julian. But in this case, because a vote was taken, the matter has been dealt with. The rules are quite clear in that regard. Once a vote has been taken on an issue, we can't revisit that issue. If you wanted to have a recorded vote, you should have done it before.
NDP
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
Well, you have simply overturned my decision to go back and record a vote. But the vote, in fact, has already been taken. So you can't go back and take a vote on a matter that's already been voted on.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Mr. Chair, we overturned that decision. The committee just had a vote—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
It's not a question of that decision. It's the rules of order.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Please proceed. It's pretty simple. We've made a decision. Please honour that decision and record the vote individually.
Liberal
Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON
Mr. Chair, I hear there is a vote in the House happening right now.
Conservative
Liberal
Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON
I hear it's not the 30-minute bells. I hear the vote is happening now.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
There's no bell. We don't have the light.
In any event, we have a motion before the committee, and that is for a recorded vote on the preceding motion. The motion was to sustain the chair on the previous motion of the last meeting. We're now going to proceed to a recorded vote on sustaining the chair's ruling.
(Ruling of the chair sustained: yeas 8; nays 3)
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
Again the chair is sustained. For a matter of record, we are sustaining the vote of the committee. Democracy reigns.
We are going to do a complete clause-by-clause of Bill C-2 at Tuesday's meeting, and we have the delegation on Thursday. So Tuesday at the next meeting we will go clause-by-clause and complete Bill C-2 at committee.
Mr. Cannis wanted to raise a point for clarification. Out of respect for Monsieur Cardin's point earlier, I apologize for any concern you had, Monsieur Cardin. I think you made your point very clearly with regard to rushing motions. I don't want to go too quickly. We are trying to stay within the time allotted to the committee. We have had discussions regarding unintended time restrictions on debate of motions. We will do our utmost to ensure that doesn't occur again. It certainly was not the intent to limit anyone's ability to speak at the committee. I want it to be absolutely clear that I didn't see your name on the list. In fact, your name wasn't on the list, but it wasn't my intention to limit debate in any way. With the consent and the will of the committee, we will do our utmost to make sure that debate on motions is allowed in future.
Mr. Cannis, did you have something you wanted to add?
Liberal
John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON
For the purpose of saving time, Mr. Chairman, I think you've covered what I really wanted to say very well, but I'll simply add that I think we will seek support that there's more flexibility in terms of the timing if that, Mr. Chair, means dismissing the witnesses a little bit earlier and not confining ourselves to that 15 minutes we initially talked about when we set the guidelines from the outset.