International Trade Committee on May 11th, 2010

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I'm going to ask you another question. Why would the Free Trade Agreement between Canada and the Republic of Colombia promote greater respect for human rights in Colombia? For many years now, there have been agreements between Colombia and other countries that have not led to an improvement in or greater respect for human rights, on the contrary.

I refer to your document. Since 1995, Colombia has been a member of the WTO. It has had a customs union with the Andean community since 1969. In addition, Colombia has had a free trade agreement with Chili since 2006. As to the agreement with Mercosur—Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay—It has been effective since December 2005. Lastly, the free trade agreement with Mexico dates back to June 1994. That's apart from the partial preferential agreements.

This isn't what we're told by most of the witnesses who talked to us about human rights. On the contrary, there has been a deterioration in the situation in Quebec, and it isn't free trade agreements that will cause it to improve. People suggest amendments to a bill so that, after the agreement is signed, Colombia and Canada will conduct a study to assess the human rights situation. So I can't believe you when you tell us the situation will really improve. All the other agreements prove the contrary.

I'd like to hear what you have to say on that subject.

[Mauricio Ferro]

I believe that Canada is different from the other countries with which Colombia has entered into free trade agreements. The presence of Canadian businesses will improve matters. In the same way as we work, as Colombians and Canadians, we can improve the way in which companies work with the communities and the population. This is what will change things. There are people with different principles. It's not the same as it used to be. I believe it's the effort by citizens and people who have principles that will change matters.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

If I understand you correctly, Mr.—

[Mauricio Ferro]

It's us, workers—

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

If I understand you correctly, Mr. Ferro, you very much believe in the quality of this kind of agreement because of the credibility of Canadian businesses. Consequently, you would no doubt be in favour of the unanimous motion by committee members last year that a free trade agreement should, if entered into, be preceded by an independent study. That will change nothing.

If the agreement is really good, why not wait and do a genuine independent human rights study? That would give everyone a true, fair, equitable and independent picture. Then everyone would be able to see whether there has been an improvement or not. We have to establish guiidelines so we can conduct an evaluation.

[Mauricio Ferro]

I believe the purpose of that kind of study would be to frustrate the free trade agreement. I don't deny the fact that we have a human rights problem. The question that arises is to determine how to change the situation, how to improve the situation of the unions and unionists. This is a problem to be solved. That's what we must all work at in order to change the situation. That's where we have to provide a solution to the situation and to the problems of Colombia.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Ferro.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Thank you.

Thank you, Monsieur Laforest.

We move now to Mr. Julian for seven minutes.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank all the witnesses for coming before us today.

I'm going to have questions for each one of you, so I'll ask you all to be fairly brief.

I'll start with you, Mr. Ferro.

I found your comments a little concerning, just given President Uribe's attacks against human rights activists, as most recently reported by the BBC, where he talked about “...those entrenched interests that in serving human rights just end up promoting the policies desired by those in collusion with terrorism”. So he's connecting human rights organizations with terrorist organizations.

We also have the recent story that's broken on the actions of the Colombian secret police, which you would know as the DAS. The 10-year-old daughter of one particular journalist who was targeted, Claudia Julieta Duque, was threatened with rape and they threatened to have her cut to pieces. She mentions that she received 70 threats in one day from the Colombian secret police.

She says that the president, referring to President Uribe:

...had a speech against those opposing him.

Those speeches were simultaneous with the actions of the secret police against us. There is a clear relation between a speech that accuses and a secret police that attacks.

So I wanted to ask you, Mr. Ferro, whether you were aware of these comments that have been made by President Uribe, and of the actions of DAS, the Colombian secret police. Or this is news to you?

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

This is trade--

[Mauricio Ferro]

Absolutely. We know very well that on August 7, Mr. Uribe's regime is going to end. We're going to elect a new president in a couple of weeks, and most probably the successor of Mr. Uribe is not going to be a sharer of these types of policies. We know that we have an independent prosecutor's office, and I think they're going to do their job.

I think that if somebody has violated the law, they are going to be brought to justice, in the same way that many Colombian MPs who colluded with paramilitaries have been brought to justice. And we hope that the Colombian judiciary is going to do its job and bring justice.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Ferro. I'm going to move on to other witnesses, but I do want to point out that Mr. Santos, who is a candidate for President Uribe's party, has said exactly the same thing. He has accused human rights organizations of being connected with terrorism and has actually been accused many times of being just as vicious and aggressive with human rights organizations as Mr. Uribe.

I'd like to go on to Madame Hallé.

Thank you for being here today.

Could you tell us a little more about the attacks against the aboriginals and Afro-Colombians?

Furthermore, a previous witness—the only witness involved in human rights in Colombia—talked about the attacks by paramilitary agents against gays and lesbians in Colombia. Could you also talk about this increase in violence against human rights advocates and militant unionists since 2008? This is important. Some of my colleagues only talk about the period up to 2007, and they forget it. I think it's important to hear testimony on this increase since 2008.

Lastly, you said that, for Canada—this is very clear, and I hope this message is understood around this table—pushing in favour of this agreement will, if I'm citing you correctly, repudiate the work of the Canadian NGOs in Colombia and could endanger Canadians in Columbia.

Could you comment on those three points?

[Tania Hallé]

Yes.

First, with regard to the situation of aboriginal and Afro-Colombian peoples, we know that there are currently five million displaced persons in Colombia. After the Sudan, this is the second country in the world where there are the most displaced persons within a country. Most of the people who have been forcibly displaced are Afro-Colombians and aboriginal people. So these are really the most vulnerable populations and those that have been the hardest hit by the situation regarding forced displacements of populations.

In the department of Choco, where we work, aboriginal communities are currently threatened by the introduction of a mining development project that could contaminate the drinking water these communities need to survive and for their daily needs.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Are they threatened by the Colombian military and paramilitary linked to the government?

[Tania Hallé]

They constantly receive threats from the paramilitary who are directly linked to the Colombian government. There's a phenomenal amount of evidence of the connections between the paramilitary strategy and the Colombian government, but I don't have the time or leisure today to detail all that evidence. However, there are a phenomenal number of documents concerning that.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

And these problems have increased since 2008.

[Tania Hallé]

Yes. We're really seeing an increase in attacks and stigmatization by members of the government against human rights advocates. President Uribe has accused human rights advocates of being human rights traffickers in the service of terrorism. These are extremely serious charges which, for us, jeopardize our escorts in the field. When they make a direct association between human rights advocates and terrorism, it's a message that gives the green light to the paramilitary to attack human rights advocates. In that sense, we believe this quite seriously increases the risks we run in the field.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you very much, Ms. Hallé.

Mr. Benedict, we had a previous witness from CCIC who said that the amendment the Liberals are bringing forward “lacks credibility” and that “the damage from a non-credible process is high”.

How would you describe the amendment? Do you believe that it lacks credibility? We've only just started hearing from human rights groups and labour organizations, but certainly, the initial comments have been very negative.

[Stephen Benedict]

As I said, as an initiative, it is interesting. It probably is a positive first step. What it lacks, indeed, is the capacity, because it is neither independent nor prior, to lead to concrete actions.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Would you say that it lacks credibility?

[Stephen Benedict]

It lacks credibility.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you.

Finally, Mr. Casey, I'd like to talk to you about softwood lumber--

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Mr. Julian, you're over your time.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

--and the thousands of jobs lost by that incredibly bad agreement signed by the Conservatives.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Mr. Trost, you have the floor.