International Trade Committee on May 11th, 2010

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Do you agree with the trade agreement that Canada has signed with Israel?

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, this is Canada and Colombia, and Mr. Cannis knows well enough that he should be asking about the testimony.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Mr. Chairman, by all means...I'm just trying to get to my point, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

This is the trade committee, and he's asking questions about trade, oddly enough.

[Tania Hallé]

I'd like you to let me finish my answer.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

He interrupted. I didn't. The rudeness was from the member from the NDP who interrupted.

[Tania Hallé]

I'm sorry, I hadn't finished my answer. I was saying that I thought my remarks today concerned the Canada-Colombia free trade agreement, not my support for or opposition to the Canada-United States Free Trade Agreement.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

I'm trying to get to that.

I'm trying to get to that. Do you agree with those trade agreements, yes or no?

[Tania Hallé]

I'm not opposed to the Free Trade Agreement between Canada and the Republic of Colombia as such, if that's your question.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

So if you don't oppose those two free trade agreements, and I can name others, for example, that Canada is engaged in... This trade agreement, if we look into it, is exactly patterned under those other agreements, and, if anything, with the addition of my colleague Scott Brison's amendment, that enhances it. So if you agree with those, why would you not agree with this one?

But I'll go on, Mr. Chairman, if I may. We talked about unions, displacements, and kidnappings etc. I have statistics here for Mr. Benedict, if I may, where there were approximately 2,882 kidnappings in 2002, and in 2009 there were 2,013. With respect to homicides, in 2002 there were 28,837, and in 2009 there were almost 50% less, at 15,000, and so on.

With respect to unions and their affiliations, I have data here. In essence, the trade union leaders and workers union affiliation has increased from almost 800,000 in 2002 to almost 1.5 million in 2009, which is a 76% increase. I have statistics here, sir, that say the trade union leaders and workers unions that were created--I underline that word, because you brought it up--in 2006, for example, were 74, and in 2009 there were 164. That's an 80% increase.

Either somebody has lied to me and I'm lying to you--and I apologize if that's the case, Mr. Chairman--but maybe you can give me a rebuttal to that, if you would.

In 2002, there were 196 homicides of union leaders. In 2009 there were 28. I believe it is 28 too many and I think we all do around this table. The fact is that it has happened and the fact is they are trying to make efforts.

On women, I want to say, Mr. Chair, regarding initiatives at the multilateral level, that Colombia, together with New Zealand, promoted the adoption of resolution 11/8 on preventable maternal mortality and morbidity and human rights in the eleventh session of the Human Rights Council. In the twelfth session of the Human Rights Council, Colombia and Mexico promoted the adoption of resolution 12/17 for the elimination of discrimination against women. This goes on with other international bodies that Colombia is working with.

I am going to conclude with this, and then anybody can speak for whatever time I have. I have concluded that here we have a nation that is trying to make an effort to get out of this difficult situation they're in.

But can I say to my constituents, Mr. Casey--and I close with you--that jobs here in Canada for my constituents, my taxpayers, are going to possibly be hurt if they can't get their products out in a competitive way and then they can't pay for their kids' education, for the mortgage, and for their groceries? Are the jobs going to be in jeopardy for my constituents in Toronto?

[Andrew Casey]

I would put it more positively. I think there are jobs to be had.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

But if we prolong making the deal...

[Andrew Casey]

This is expanding our markets. We are succeeding in existing markets and I think this offers an expansion of markets beyond what we are already enjoying.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Whatever time is left, Mr. Chair, is for the panel members if they want to respond.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

We have a minute, Mr. Benedict, if you can go a minute.

[Stephen Benedict]

Oh, I'll be 30 seconds. I am happy to debate numbers as long as you wish. The numbers that we have are the numbers provided to us by the organizations that belong to the International Trade Union Confederation. They don't match with those of the government. I'm happy to have a side discussion on that.

The same applies to issues of workers covered by collective agreements. That number has decreased, as has the number of collective agreements signed, which is an important statistic, different from members who join trade unions and different from trade union organizations that are created by the government to support its positions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Thank you.

We're going to move on to Monsieur Laforest.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good afternoon to all the witnesses. Good afternoon, Mr. Ferro, in Colombia.

I have a first question for Mr. Casey. Mr. Casey, I was somewhat surprised to hear you say that the Free Trade Agreement between Canada and the Republic of Colombia would eventually make it possible to increase... In any case, that agreement seems to be important to you.

I'm going to set that alongside something else. Last week, I attended a meeting for the États généraux du bois dans la construction, which is organized by the Conseil de l'industrie forestière du Québec. Moreover, my colleague Mr. Guimond was there as well. We heard a number of speakers, and we attended conferences for most of the day.

Light was shed on aspects that must be addressed in order to increase productivity. Never was there any talk of a free trade agreement with Colombia. No one ever mentioned such an agreement, which is so unimportant for the development of the forest industry. Many other countries are much more important from a market standpoint. We talked about research and development, fibre-cutting methods, cutting methods and especially loan guarantees—which the Conservative government is till denying us. That's what will save the forest industry. You're telling us that this Free Trade Agreement between Canada and the Republic of Colombia will save us. I find that completely incongruous.

[Andrew Casey]

It's clearly not the most important market for us; it's more those of China, India, the United States and Europe. However, it is a fairly large market. It isn't a wood market; it's a pulp and paper market. That's the opportunity. We sell $41 million worth of newsprint—I don't know the word in French—in Colombia. So the market is quite big for a few plants in Quebec, such as AbitibiBowater, and perhaps Kruger as well, I believe, which wants access to the Colombian market.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Ferro, I have a question for you.

[Mauricio Ferro]

Could you speak slowly?

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

All right, I'm going to speak more slowly, if the Chairman allows me to—

[Mauricio Ferro]

Thank you very much.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

With regard to the Free Trade Agreement between Canada and the Republic of Colombia, you say patience is necessary, that this agreement will promote greater respect for human rights in Colombia. That's somewhat what you told us, if I'm not mistaken.

[Mauricio Ferro]

Yes, I'm sure of it. However, we have to work every day to change the attitudes and behaviour of people and public officers. If we don't work to change the situation, nothing will happen in the next few years.