International Trade Committee on March 11th, 2010

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you.

I'll be very brief with each of my questions and hopefully you can be brief with your answers as well.

Just on the definitions on the issue of temporary agreements, on the exemption that was given for the social services, I want to know how you define social services.

Also, on the question of Ontario and Quebec, you included highways. Does that also include all road construction in that definition of the exemption?

I'll start with those two questions. I have other questions I'd like to ask.

[Dany M. Carriere]

As for how we define social services, I guess that's a two-part question, because services form part of the.... I'm assuming here that if you're talking about social services, you're speaking of the agreement on government procurement, because the temporary agreement applies only to construction. There are no social services.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Well, there are two questions I was asking. It was a two-part question. One is how you define social services. The other was whether under construction, under highways, whether “highways” includes all road construction in Quebec and Ontario. So it was a two-part question; it was not the same question. But they both were to ask for clarification.

[Dany M. Carriere]

Well, social services are defined as.... It's hard to explain. Services, you know--

[A voice]

Social welfare.

[Dany M. Carriere]

Yes, social welfare and those kinds of things. Those are excluded from--

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

But usually when you put something in an agreement, isn't it also explicitly defined what it actually is?

[Dany M. Carriere]

No. We define only what is actually included. Because the way a procurement chapter is constructed, you have to be an entity that's covered in order for it to kick in.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Well, that's why I said “social service entities”, just like in the agreement.

[Dany M. Carriere]

Well, social service entities would be Ontario social welfare, that kind of thing. They're not entities that are listed in this agreement. The entities listed in this agreement are provincial ministries and departments.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

That's not a very good answer. You have something in the agreement that says “social service entities” and you can't define what that is.

[Dany M. Carriere]

Well, each province and territory would be able to answer that question, because they know what their social services entities are.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

All right.

What about the second question on the highways? Does it include all road construction?

[Dany M. Carriere]

Yes, that includes all roads.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Okay.

Did the government ever come up with a range of aggregate estimates of the value of the U.S. program funding that would open Canada under the agreement?

[Marie-Josée Langlois]

Could you repeat it? I missed some words.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Okay.

I hope that will be taken off my time.

Did the Government of Canada ever come up with a range of aggregate estimates of the value of the U.S. program funding that would be open to Canada under the agreement?

[Marie-Josée Langlois]

It goes back to the questions asked by Mr. Brison and Mr. Allen.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Yes, I realize that, but we didn't get clarification. That's why we're asking again.

[Marie-Josée Langlois]

Again, like I said, all the information we have is the numbers put into the recovery act that are being transferred to the various programs. Then, how they're managed will vary from one department to another in regard to their management of the programs, so it's difficult for us to assess how they're going to be transferring money between the federal and the sub-federal levels.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

What criteria were used to measure whether it was a fair deal?

[Marie-Josée Langlois]

I'm sorry?

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

What criteria did you use to measure whether or not this was a fair deal for Canada?

[Marie-Josée Langlois]

The provinces and territories were involved throughout the discussions. It reflects their interests and the interests of their stakeholders, constituents, and municipalities. The assessment was made by the councils of ministers in the various provinces and territories in terms of what their interests were and how they were met. It's not for us to assess what the provinces judge would be in their interests.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

So there's no way of you measuring and figuring out which would be better, if this is actually the best deal or a balanced deal, or a deal that favours one side more than the other? I mean, how do you evaluate that and put that into the equation?