Evidence of meeting #38 for International Trade in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was panama.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
I will now ask the same question to Mr. Deneault, because it is a very important aspect of everything that we have just discussed today.
Sociology Researcher, Université du Québec à Montréal
If we start with the understanding that there is no agreement for disclosing information and that we're dealing with a country seen as one of the largest sources of money laundering in the world, and we sign such an agreement, we would be sending a message internationally that Canada is becoming a funnel for laundered drug money. That would imply an upheaval in our economies and sovereign jurisdictions giving up authority over the economy and criminality of all kinds. So we shouldn't sign it.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
If Canada signs a free trade agreement that doesn't disclose tax information and if, therefore, we do not have a tax information exchange agreement, it could help drug traffickers?
Sociology Researcher, Université du Québec à Montréal
Exactly, because we would be dealing with legalization and an ever-increasing openness to highly proven methods of money laundering, such as making legal investments with money that basically isn't. This is how money laundering works.
Writer, Expert on Fiscal Policy and Public Finance, As an Individual
It's obvious that, for Canada, not having this information exchange in the future with Panama would be limiting, if the flow of commercial relations between the two countries becomes significant—as it may be in the future. In any case, it is Panama's goal to become a bigger and bigger player on the international scene.
Obviously, if this information exchange does not exist, it would prevent the Canadian government from going and checking transactions made by Canadian businesses through their affiliates or branches in Panama.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
Thank you.
We're going to wrap up with Mr. Chong and Mr. Trost.
Mr. Chong.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I am going to ask a question, and I want to say something.
Before I ask a question, I think there are a couple of mistakes in your presentation, Mr. Laurin. I think you probably wanted to say, on page 2, the slide at the top, that Canadian manufacturing accounts for 31% of Canada's GDP, not 13%.
I also wanted to point out that manufacturing in Canada is not a $1.6 trillion business—that is the size of the entire Canadian economy. I think we have other industry sectors besides that. But those are two minor points.
This trade agreement really comes as a result of the failure of the WTO to achieve any progress on further trade liberalization. Many people believe that the failure of the WTO is the cause of these bilateral and regional multilateral trade agreements that are sprouting up all around the world.
From the Canadian manufacturers' and exporters' position, would you rather have governments pursue the WTO route or these bilateral and multilateral agreements?
Vice-President, Global Business Policy, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters
That's a good question. I'll start by answering it, and then refer to the comments you made at the beginning of your short presentation.
I think we need to pursue both. We'd like to see multilateral—
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
But there are many people who argue that the multilateral or the bilateral approach is weakening the WTO round of negotiations.
Vice-President, Global Business Policy, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters
I believe that Canada should be pursuing discussions at the multilateral level and try to play a leading role. But with negotiations being stalled right now, we can't just sit on the sidelines and say, “We shouldn't be doing anything bilaterally because we need to put all our eggs in a multilateral basket.”
We're seeing the United States signing free trade agreements with other markets, and we're seeing the European Union doing the same thing. Our members are competing internally for investment dollars, right? We had a discussion on the Canada-European Union free trade negotiations recently with some of our members. This is a great opportunity for Canadian companies to position Canada as the developed economy, where you can access highly skilled labour and have duty-free access into the two largest export markets in the world. In that sense, we have no other option but to pursue the bilateral route for the time being.
With regard to the numbers in my presentation, yes, manufacturing directly accounts for 13% of Canada's GDP. It was 16% in 2005, but that's the—
Conservative
Vice-President, Global Business Policy, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters
The $500 billion is manufacturing sales, where GDP calculates value-added. That's the distinction.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
Well, $500 billion in sales of $1.6 trillion is....
Vice-President, Global Business Policy, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters
Well, $1.6 trillion is actually the total value of sales. Basically, every dollar of manufacturing production generates $3.25 in total economic activity in Canada. We're looking at sales here, not value added; the GDP numbers account only for the value added. Our numbers account for total sales. So that's why the number is much bigger than you would see for the GDP number.
Conservative
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
I think if you have $500 billion in sales, then you have an error in your presentation.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
So what?
Well, the point is that you'd like to have the facts consistent and have the correct data.
Vice-President, Global Business Policy, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters
But this is StatsCan data actually. I can give you the source if you want it. It's the manufacturing sales published every month by StatsCan.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
Okay. Those are all the questions I have, Mr. Chair.
Conservative
Bradley Trost Conservative Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK
I was just going to ask Mr. Laurin about the importance of getting an agreement before the United States. I know it's important for our agriculture industry that we get this trade deal and get in there first. Is it the same for manufacturing, and how do they plan to exploit it?
December 6th, 2010 / 5:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Global Business Policy, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters
Especially for food processors, I know that many of them already see Panama as an important market. I think it's key that we get our agreement in place before or at the same time as the United States.
But for other sectors already in that market, it's very important that we get an agreement. Otherwise, if we don't get an agreement in place and the United States does, we will be at a competitive disadvantage and Canadian companies risk losing customers, especially in sectors where the tariffs remain significant barriers to business.