International Trade Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2011

[Anders Fisker]

We measure them simply by the quality of our meetings and the recognition factor that we have from all kinds of bodies, like the Greater Toronto Marketing Alliance and the government itself.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

You certainly made reference to the number of meetings you participated in, and it sounds as though that's growing. You said we shouldn't let the euro get in the way of a deal. Could you expand on that a little bit more for us, please?

[Anders Fisker]

I would say on a personal note that I believe the euro will continue, but should it not, we would still say that Canada and the EU--and Denmark has the Danish krone and the U.K. has the pound--are still quality markets, and there would be great opportunity to expand our business relationship with Canadian interests and U.S. interests.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

You're not suggesting Europe take over the Canadian currency as its currency, I presume.

[Anders Fisker]

Absolutely not.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

I'm just playing with you on that.

Thank you for that. I find that helpful.

Mr. Seligman, I had a chance to look up your line of products. They're very unique. Do you have any competition for your business out there? I've heard that what you do is so unique.

[Bruce Seligman]

No, we don't. I've often thought over the years that to have a competitor would be an advantage, because then you could do it better than them.

Sometimes I go into meetings in foreign countries and they look at me rather like the first helicopter salesman. “Boy, have I got a plane for you. It's got no wings and the propeller is on the roof.” I do suffer from that, but at the same time it's such a specific market.

I spoke to Laurent Beaudoin at Bombardier in about the mid-1990s, and we were talking about working with them. His point was that when we get a market that's big enough, like the Ski-Doo or something—the Sea-Doo—then they'd be interested.

Basically we go from one problem area to the next, whether it's the ice and the mobility problems in the north or it's in China looking at quicksand. We don't have big volumes. The dollars are quite high because we sell expensive product, but it's not in that big numbers that companies like Bombardier are interested in.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Perhaps I'll have a chance to ask you more later on.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you.

Mr. Easter.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, gentlemen, for coming.

Mr. Fisker, you seem to have had a lot of meetings, yet you said in your remarks that you're lacking information on what is being negotiated. We seem to be in the same position. We're not exactly sure, and no witness before us has seen the ninth round, the eighth round, the seventh round, unless it was the minister in the department.

I recently had a meeting with pork producers, and both the beef and the pork industry will tell you it is absolutely critical that if there is a deal that we get into the European market on beef and pork. Now, we know the Europeans are fairly restrictive in that area. What do you see are the chances there? Do you think that's going to come about in an agreement, and what will be the trade-off be if we do?

[Anders Fisker]

On a personal note, I believe that could be the case. We have a lot of good product in Canada in beef and pork that could be competitive in Europe.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

From your perspective, though, what is the trade-off?

In any kind of negotiation, if you're going to get into their sensitive commodities then I expect we're going to have to give on ours. Seeing as you've met so many people on both sides, where do you see that the discussion is at?

[Anders Fisker]

I don't have a correct answer for that one. I could say that from Denmark to the U.K. there are a lot of pork products being sent, and also dairy products. With Denmark we will probably have a tough competition to beat them.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Okay. The other area you talked about was geographic indicators. You did say one thing that I didn't understand. You qualified it by saying you need to ensure they are in line with I think copyright, and something else that I didn't catch. What did you mean there?

[Anders Fisker]

We actually had one of these meetings where it was mozzarella. When is a mozzarella a mozzarella cheese--that kind of thing. It's the same with champagne. If it comes out of the Champagne area, it's champagne; if it comes out of anywhere else, it's sparkling wine.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

I understand that, but one of our problems, and probably more so in the dairy industry and the cheese industry, is that the Europeans have the geographic indicators where they actually name the product, and for Canadians it's going to be a substantial concern, if I could put it that way.

If we've sold a particular cheese under what is now considered a geographic indicator that is disallowed, do you see any way, based on your discussions, of Canada protecting itself against that? I can understand where the Europeans are at, but if you've always marketed it under a certain name and I go to the store to buy it, that's the name I'm buying.

[Anders Fisker]

I agree. In May 2010 we had “The Canada-EU Free Trade Agreement: What's In A Name?” We had Steve Verheul there. We had Kathryn McKinley, who is the deputy director of technical trade policy of Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada; Jason from CERT; Karen Young, the leader of regulatory and scientific affairs with Nestlé Canada; C.J. Hélie, who is the executive vice-president of Spirits Canada/Association of Canadian Distillers; and Keith Mussar, who is chair of the food committee at I.E. Canada. We did this in partnership with I.E. Canada. The matter has been discussed thoroughly. I'm not an expert on the matter myself.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

I guess the concern we have may have been discussed, but what's the end result?

Just coming to Mr. Seligman, I'm assuming from what you said that one of your greatest problems is getting your skilled labour into other countries where your craft are located to do service. Are you in the countries of the European Union with your craft? If not, why not? What's the reason? Is it a sales issue? Is it a tariff issue?

Are you in the European Union now?

[Bruce Seligman]

No, we're not. We have several projects we're working on. The reason is, as I was just saying with the problems, when they had their big problem in Kazakhstan with hydrogen sulphide gas that was emitted from that zone, they needed some craft that could consistently go through the ice and water, and that's where it went.

It's really almost problem-driven. We are a craft for very severe conditions. We don't go and market traditionally, or haven't as yet. We're now starting to do that. Thus far, we've been moved from one oil company to the next where they say they have this problem and they're told they can go to ARKTOS for that.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

If you were to get into the European Union, do you anticipate temporary visas being a problem there? I do know about visas because of some companies in P.E.I., and vice-versa coming the other way as well. Getting the people with the specific skills in a timely fashion is difficult. Even coming into this country you have to do the human labour market survey and see if there are other skills available, and if there are Canadians with similar skills that could do the job.

In the European Union now, do you see the visas being a problem there if that market opens up for you? Do you have any experience at all?

[Bruce Seligman]

No, I don't. I do think that it's not so much the skills you talk about but the experience. You can get the same good mechanic walk past a track system who says it looks okay, but someone who has experience in the craft will look at it and say it has a bent backing bar on that track. It's experience rather than skill. A lot of people in these given markets with the same and better skill sets, if they had the experience.... You can't just go hire someone and tell them to go do service work on the ARKTOS, because it's so unique. There aren't any craft like it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Okay. Thank you very much.

We'll now yield the floor to Mr. Hiebert.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here today.

Representing the area of South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, I would like to highlight that the company ARKTOS Developments Ltd. is from Surrey. It is a local company, and one I have to admit I don't know much about, which is why I'm pleased to have this opportunity to ask some questions of you.

I thought I'd start by getting a background about the company. You have been around, as you said in your opening remarks, for some time. How many employees do you have?

[Bruce Seligman]

Right now we have about 35, but it goes up and down with the builds. For instance, when we were building the last big build for Kazakhstan, we had 64 people on three different shifts. We were working around the clock because they had a deadline to start drilling. Then we go right down again. Now we have two or three very big projects very close and we may well get over 100 people very soon.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

On secured sales that you have in line?