International Trade Committee on Sept. 25th, 2012

[Jochen Tilk]

No. You asked me a question that I didn't relate to this one. This is the establishment of a protected area in.... I can't remember the date of that. We had filed an appeal to the way it was put in place. Since then, the government and the authorities have been working with us on the establishment of it.

We're a huge supporter of the establishment of that area. In fact, we think the government should establish it. The circumstances of what you're referring to were actually related to Inmet's desire and Minera Panamá's desire, together with the government, to establish that protected area, so I think you need to be very careful of the context into which you put that.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Tilk, again I'm asking.... The release I'm reading from says:

The court’s decision responds to an injunction sought by the Panama Mining company (subsidiary of Toronto-based Inmet) submitted in May 2009 with the objective of overturning the resolution by ANAM, that two months earlier, designated the area for conservation.

What I'm asking you to correct, sir.... I read this to say that the Panamanian ANAM designated an area of conservation, and Inmet, through its subsidiary, sought to get an injunction to overturn that designation of the area as an area of conservation.

Do I have that correct, or is that incorrect?

[Jochen Tilk]

That is correct, for the purpose of properly establishing the Donoso protected area. That is the objective, which has since been accomplished.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

You propose to establish an open-pit copper mine. Will that be anywhere near the protected area of Donoso?

[Jochen Tilk]

That would be in the area of Donoso. That's correct.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Is that not the area, sir, that is the subject of the conservation declaration?

[Jochen Tilk]

That's part of the area. You're talking about a fairly large area.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you.

Mr. Cannan is next.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to our witnesses.

Following up on Mr. Davies' points, Mr. Tilk.... First of all, I want to thank and commend your board and yourself for taking that initiative, that leap of faith in the government, in investing over $6 billion and proceeding with the project.

With regard to the size of the ecological area versus the footprint of your mine operation, could you put that in perspective for us?

[Jochen Tilk]

The area of Donoso is an area that we would like to establish together with the government. The mining area is a fraction of that in terms of size, so when you put it in total dimensions it depends very much on what the Donoso protected area will look like in its final boundaries. We're looking at 5,000 hectares for the entire footprint of the mine. The Donoso area would be a multiple of that, but the final boundaries haven't yet been established.

I don't want to take up the time of the committee, but the objective of Inmet has to be crystal clear: it is, jointly with the Government of Panama, to establish a protected area.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

That is obviously a noble cause.

I'll follow up on my colleague's comments about social corporate responsibility: obviously you're trying to lead by example.

[Jochen Tilk]

Absolutely. Inmet and people personally—I personally—believe that the Government of Panama needs to and should do more to protect the Meso-American biological corridor. I couldn't agree more. The concerns that people have are the same concerns that we have.

The difference is that we believe, through our presence and with a trade agreement between the countries, that the likelihood of the Meso-American biological corridor being protected is much greater than without it, because without the financial support, without the economic base, without the employment, without the education, and without the infrastructure, the reality is that the Meso-American biological corridor, unfortunately, will probably not survive. If you and your colleagues have the time, I would encourage you to look at that. That's the trend without our presence, but with our presence, which is facilitated—and hopefully would encourage others with the presence of a free trade agreement—the opportunity and the chances to protect it are much greater. That's because the country needs the economic base to do so, and the policies that go with it, and we're a big part of that.

I'm as concerned as you and your colleagues are, but I'm equally encouraged that through our presence—we have another business, and I only speak on behalf of the group as a whole—we have a chance to facilitate the preservation of the area, and the establishment of Donoso is one of them.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you for your commitment and your concern for the environment and social aspects.

I had an opportunity to travel with some of the existing committee members—and we have some new committee members—who went to Panama a few years back and saw the situation on the ground first-hand, which was very interesting.

My concern, obviously, is to have a benefit for both Canada and Panama. You'll have seen the statement that a rising tide lifts all boats; from your understanding of the agreement, do you see this free trade agreement as a benefit for the Panamanians as well?

[Jochen Tilk]

I do, absolutely. I think it's a huge benefit for Canadians and Canadian business, obviously, but it's also a tremendous benefit for Panama.

In my 20 years of involvement, and particularly in the last 10 years, I recall a significant difference in the disappearance of the Panamanian rainforest. I can tell you that the area that was pristine 10 years ago is now probably half of what it was. We back it up with facts. We have the surveys and the research. Most of it is based on subsistence farming slash-and-burn, and on the inability, really, to establish an economic base that would allow people to protect the rainforest. Quite frankly, it's just not a priority of Panama right now.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Mr. Harvey, I have one last quick question. Thank you for coming in.

With regard to the trade agreement, have some in your association or among your members been waiting for this FTA to be signed before they'll make a commitment of investment into Panama, or have Panamanians been waiting to invest into Canada, as a mutually beneficial operation, or potentially?

[Michael Harvey]

No, I haven't spoken to anybody who specifically told me “No FTA, no investment”. My members have told me that an FTA to them is a positive signal that allows them to invest more easily.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much.

The bells are going to go at about a quarter past the hour. I believe I have consensus to proceed to the last two questioners—we have one here, one there—if that's okay.

[An hon. member]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

We'll give each one five minutes.

Go ahead, Mr. Sandhu.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

First, to Mr. Harvey, who are your members?

[Michael Harvey]

They are individuals. People sign up as individuals to become members. Our main sponsors are companies. The financial backbone of our organization is our sponsors, but our members are individuals, who generally are the Toronto business community. Others are academics, and some are journalists and individuals who want to join.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

They are individuals who represent companies or corporations.

[Michael Harvey]

I'd say most of the people who come to our events are involved in business. Sometimes it's their own companies and sometimes they're working for another company. Most of our events have a business focus, although not all do. We do things on foreign policy and human rights. We do different things.

Actually, our organization tries to actively take our business members' interests and expand them a little bit to issues that are a bit more political or human rights in nature, but we don't try to go so far that they'll stop coming to our events.