Evidence of meeting #54 for International Trade in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was japan.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield
Very good.
And soon there will be LNG from Canada.
Jasbir Sandhu, go ahead.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC
Mr. Campbell, thank you for your service to Canada.
Our missions overseas serve a vital role not only in fostering a good relationship with other countries but also in fostering trade and economic activities back home.
I'll go on record that I agree with my friend Gerald Keddy that we have a fantastic brand. What we heard is that we need to sell up that brand in Japan. I don't think we're doing a good job there right now.
In Kansai, we heard from the Canadian Chamber of Commerce in Kansai and the Japanese Chamber of Commerce and Industry. They had some concerns that we were not selling our products any better, especially with the closure of the Osaka consular services.
That being said, Osaka is the second largest city, and there is some tension between Tokyo and Osaka. Osaka is an industrial hub of Japan, with a GDP, as you pointed out, that is bigger than Canada's GDP.
I'd like to quote my colleague. When we're negotiating trade agreements, it's more about.... There are obviously trade agreements, and reducing tariffs and non-tariff barriers to foster economic activities.
I talked to you earlier today. What I found out is that building a relationship with the Japanese will foster further trade activity between our nations.
What sort of message are we sending to the Japanese in Osaka with the closure of the consular services? Also, I've heard from Canadian business people in Tokyo. They weren't very happy with the closure of the visa services in Tokyo, especially for students who want to come here.
Could you comment on these issues?
4:20 p.m.
Senior Strategy Advisor, Davis LLP
In terms of the brand issue, branding is always an interesting subject and a challenge.
It is fair to say that if you spoke to the average Japanese, some of whom will have been to Canada, some of whom will not, they have a very positive view of Canada. They have a very dreamy view, if I could put it that way, of Canada as a country of beautiful nature, of lands and lakes, that it's colder than it is to the south, that it's a gentler country, that it doesn't have the violence and the gun issues that our neighbours to the south have, which, for students coming to Canada, is a significant factor.
However, not enough of them know eastern Canada, other than Prince Edward Island. A lot of them don't have a sense of the high technology industries, of the dynamic cities that we have across the country. They have, as I said, a positive but rather gentle view of the country. We need to sharpen that up. A successor of mine did. For the 75th anniversary of the relationship—we just recently had the 80th anniversary of the formal relationship—he initiated a year-long series of events, all called “Think Canada”. It was very successful. But those things cost money. And of course, this is five or six years later. There's a need to do more. That's in terms of the broad branding.
In terms of very specific branding, the word “Canada” on beef or pork means something to the Japanese.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
4:20 p.m.
Senior Strategy Advisor, Davis LLP
As I said, I thought it was unfortunate that we closed the consulate in Osaka. I would love to see it reopen. Obviously, boots on the ground always help.
That being said, a lot of the work being done has to be done by the exporters and by the industry themselves. There are campaigns.
The Japanese are very receptive to specific campaigns, whether on beef, pork, or maple syrup, or whatever product you want to name.
November 6th, 2012 / 4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
Thanks, Chair.
Ûsually I like to follow the member for Malpeque at these meetings because he often provides great fodder for me to chew on. But this afternoon, much like his comments about me in the House after I spoke, frankly, I don't think there's much worthwhile for me to respond to. That means Mr. Campbell and I will have an opportunity to have a good conversation.
I did not go to Japan. I think I'm actually the first speaker this afternoon who did not, except for you, unless you went last week as well. Perhaps you did.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
I would like to know a few things, based on the folks who have made great representations to us, and I thank them for being part of that today.
I'm taking a historical perspective, if I can, after the Second World War. Japan had a reputation from the standpoint of manufacturing that, frankly, wasn't very positive. I recall back when I was a young kid growing up—and it wasn't in the forties, but it certainly was in the fifties—that something that was made in Japan wasn't a high-quality product. It was breakable, replaceable, perhaps even able to be copied, who knows. Regardless, it wasn't considered a high-quality product. They've gone through a phenomenal rebranding. They've gone to a point where we've heard comments around this table about quality.
I'd like to understand a little bit better, please, what Japan did, from your perspective. Do you have an opinion on this? What allowed them to go from the perception that I have, and I think that was a fairly reasonable one, to one where now, frankly, they have a great reputation and a well-deserved one? Do you have any thoughts about that?
4:25 p.m.
Senior Strategy Advisor, Davis LLP
Yes. If I could respond to your first comment on after the—
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Senior Strategy Advisor, Davis LLP
If I comment on your first point, I think that the west, and I say the west more generally than just Canada, has always misjudged or not had an accurate contemporary appreciation of Japan. You're quite right that after the war there was distrust, obviously, for reasons related to the war, but there was contempt, quite frankly, for Japanese goods and for Japan. That contempt over time, as the Japanese economic machine and miracle started to rev up, turned to admiration for the quality of the things they were doing. That then turned to envy, and during the bubble period it turned to fear.
If you look at the books that were published, Head to Head, and Japan as Number One: Lessons for America, all these things in the eighties and nineties, there was fear of Japan. When you had the bursting of the bubble in Japan, you moved into, for the last two years, dismissal. Every single one of those was wrong at the time and wrong in retrospect. We have to be very careful about our impressions of Japan. I don't just say this as Canadians, I say this as westerners.
On the quality issue, this was not something new for the Japanese. The history of Japan was a history of handicraft and craftsmanship. That's what came back to the fore. If you look at, for example, Japanese china and ceramics, for the last 200 years they have been leading the world, but there was an export—
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
I'm interrupting only to ask this, because I'm really trying to understand the historical perspective. If you understand the history, it helps you going forward. Do you think that was a survival mode they were in after the war?
4:25 p.m.
Senior Strategy Advisor, Davis LLP
I think there was a survival mode and it was the beginning of a very significant push towards an export-driven economy, and it suffered during that period. It wasn't that long a period before quality came back to the fore.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
That's fairly clear from the comments from those who attended, and I'm certainly not disappointed that I didn't go.
I would say to you that you hear that right around the table about the whole issue of quality if you want to deal with Japan.
A question came to us in May from Janice Hilchie of the Canadian Life and Health Insurance Association. She expressed concerns about state-controlled financial services enterprises, Japan Post.
This will become a very tough issue for, I believe, Canadian financial institutions. Are you aware of it? Do you have any thoughts on that? How would you respond?
4:25 p.m.
Senior Strategy Advisor, Davis LLP
I am generally aware of it. I am no expert on the insurance industry. I think you will find that a company like Manulife has done very well in Japan.
As for the post office, it was wholly owned by government. It's not anymore. It is still government-controlled. The difference in Japan is that Japan Post became the retail depository of choice of almost every Japanese you could name, so it ended up with huge funds, which were then lent to government in the form of cheap bonds. It was a huge financing mechanism for the Japanese government in a way that was not the case in Canada. Japan Post will be an issue, but we'll just have to address it.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield
Our time is gone, Mr. Campbell, but thank you very much for being with us. We appreciate your knowledge and experience in Japan. It has been a great opportunity to be able to examine some of the things that we had heard last week and to consider what this EPA really means.
Our first round of negotiations will start on November 26. We're a great forerunner to that. We've rattled every cage we could find, and we have learned a little bit about ambassadors. We should do a visit just as they are leaving, because they cash in all their political chips. We had the most unbelievable meetings with the highest calibre of people.
Thank you again for being with us.
With that, we'll suspend the meeting and move on to the next—
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Mr. Chair, at the meeting, I put a motion on the Canada-China investment promotion and protection agreement, FIPPA. I asked a series of questions. They went in written form to the department. It's now been two weeks.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
No, due course is not good enough. Look, if the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade can't answer a series of technical questions on an agreement that came into effect on October 31, there is something wrong. Maybe it has to be further authorized, but it was due to come in on October 31. There was a series of questions that they should have been able to answer within two days. We weren't allowed to debate the issue.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield
Yes, we understand that. We'll examine it with them and find out where—