Evidence of meeting #66 for International Trade in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was indian.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Devinder Shory Conservative Calgary Northeast, AB
Thank you.
I just want to clarify that when we go as a delegation, whether it is through the CEPA or for any other trade mission, we do not meet all these CEOs all the time. Primarily we meet the SMEs—small businesses, and all local businesses. They are invited to those meetings, and we have enough time to talk one to one as well.
NDP
Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for being here today.
I want to start out by saying that Mr. Shory talked about any trade agreement that the Conservatives have negotiated as being to the net benefit of Canada. But the facts are pretty clear in the last seven years, that when the Liberals were in power we had a trade surplus, and now we have the largest trade current account deficit under this government.
Having said that, I'm going to come back to you, Mr. Ghuman—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield
You should stay with the witness, before you start arguing with members.
NDP
Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC
I'm going to come back to you, Mr. Ghuman. You were talking about properties and about how a number of Indo-Canadians have properties in India.
Can you elaborate on that? Is the property safe there? What are the concerns locally here?
As an Individual
They are not safe. I'm going to talk only about the state government of Punjab. There are other spheres also, where everybody has their properties. They have now started designating people as NRIs—non-resident Indian—people who are Indian but are now Canadian citizens or foreigners, citizens of whatever.
That state government is trying to help them locate their properties, if somebody has taken them over or whatever. But in reality they are not doing that. In reality, the state government is collecting the information from all these NRIs, and this new government—I mean, the previous government, which came back into power, as Mr. Sandhu and Mr. Shory know—is offering peanuts for those properties to the foreigners who are owners of those properties, and they're saying take it or leave it, because these properties have been occupied by their own people.
So this is how it is, Mr. Sandhu. I'm talking about people who, if they get hold of their property, can sell it. They don't want to invest money there; they don't want to stay there; they don't want to go back, even. They want to bring their money into Canada.
That was my concern.
President, Pacific Exotic Food Inc.
I want to share my personal experience.
By the way, I was vice-president of the NRIs of the Sabha in Jalandhar for the last two years. Now the election is done again and I might go there and do it. I have heard hundreds and I can say up to thousands of complaints about my district where I live back home in the Punjab. People left their property, worth $5 for $1. Or they got 5% of the value of it. When NRI people go there, there's no protection under the law. So someone makes a complaint against them that they have done various things, and goes to the police, and then their passport is seized.
This is a practical example. Mr.—should I give the name of the person—
President, Pacific Exotic Food Inc.
Okay, I'll generalize.
There are so many names I could put on the table. People are losing their property and leaving and they don't want to go back home as NRIs. I'm talking about agricultural properties over there. The law is there, but nobody is implementing it. That's the thing. When negotiations are done or are on the table, this point should be brought up again and again: there should be protection for foreigners, whether they are American, Canadian, or you name it. Whoever the foreigners are, from wherever, there should be protection for them. When there are complaints, they should go through our government licensing office over there. If someone has a complaint there, it should go through them so they can look after the people who come back to their home.
NDP
Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC
We have a large Indo-Canadian population, over one million. You've highlighted some of the concerns that they have when it comes to investing in India. If we have an agreement signed, do you think that's going to change anything right away?
As an Individual
I think it will change. There's a big change in the Indian system. Whatever it was 20 or 25 years ago, there were lots of hurdles. It is a little bit better, not better. But if the Canadian government insists to the Indian government and they put something there on the table, I'm sure when Manmohan Singh looks at it, for their benefit, as well as for Canadians' benefit, it should work; it will work. But we have to put in the effort. We have to put the right things on the table.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
Thank you, Chair.
I'd like to thank the guests for being here today.
You know, it's rather interesting that when you come this late in the discussion you hear some comments from others. There's a mantra coming from my Liberal colleague who says constantly that signing agreements for the sake of signing them seems to be what we are doing. But I have to say—and I'd like to remind our colleagues—Mr. Easter and Mr. Sandhu both—lest we forget, that the world economy just absolutely got decimated in the worldwide recession in 2009. In fact, the WTO's estimate is that global trade fell by 12%. That's unbelievable. So when I hear some of the testimony that you two gentlemen have given—and I appreciate your candour and your forthrightness—it strikes me that if there was ever a reason to have a trade agreement with India....
And, by the way, Mr. Dhesi, you trade with India.
Conservative
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
So what is wrong with having a rules-based system that sets out the obligations between countries at the state level so that we can ensure that when you want to do business in India or when Indians want to do business in Canada, because to be fair, it goes both ways...? Does it not make sense to both of you that we have a rules-based system that sets out what the obligations are for all the parties?
Yes or no would work really well for me right now.
Do you agree? Yes?
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
I'll stop right there for just a moment because we're making progress.
Now, when you add a couple of other things, such as labour laws and environmental laws, which were put into all of our trade agreements—again so that we can help set standards—I would think that it's fair to say, gentlemen, that Canada's standard of living is very high. That's a broad comment. You've come here to stay, and I think that's good for Canada, and hopefully good for you and your families. It certainly sounds like it.
What we do with environmental and labour laws is that I think we help make other countries better. You've heard the expression—I think my Cape Breton mother made it up—that a high tide raises all ships. It's very much that if we can help India do more business, it's better for them and better for us.
Here's the other obvious thing. Mr. Dhesi, when I received your comments here, I felt that it was like a DFAIT briefing. It was very thorough. There was a lot here. If I can imagine one of the reasons why we want to do this deal, just imagine the population of India from 2011. You've said 1.2 billion, and Canada is at...?