International Trade Committee on March 20th, 2013

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[José Antonio Raymundo Bellina Acevedo]

We continued after the soccer match.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

They're removing 90% of the tariffs. They feel they'll have this agreement in place by the end of the month. Is that still on track? Do you know how the negotiations are going with the four partners?

[José Antonio Raymundo Bellina Acevedo]

The next meeting is in Cali.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

The four partners of the alliance are saying right now that they should have 90% of the tariffs removed by the end of March. Do you think it's on target? Is it moving as proposed? Are they going to need more time?

[José Antonio Raymundo Bellina Acevedo]

I don't have any information regarding this meeting. Right now they are working on some technical aspects of the agreement. The delegations are going to talk about all these different aspects.

I'm sure that in the last few months it's going to be very easy for the four to agree on all matters because the policies are more or less the same, and the goals are the same.

When you negotiate, sometimes you have to request more or less time. In any case, I hope they are going to achieve a very good agreement before the summit in Cali, Colombia.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

So Canada right now is an observer—

[José Antonio Raymundo Bellina Acevedo]

It's an observer.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

What do we have to do if we want to join? What's the process?

[José Antonio Raymundo Bellina Acevedo]

There is a step-by-step process.

We are very close friends with Canada. Usually, on an informal basis, all the agreements we achieve or are going to achieve we share in common with the Canadian government, because that is the way we are going to encourage Canada to be a member. It's very easy because we share the same goals.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

What would be the timeline if we wanted to join? How long would it take?

[José Antonio Raymundo Bellina Acevedo]

That is a very good question because there are some aspects where I know Canada has some problems because of its policy situation. For example, immigration: immigration is a difficult matter for Canada. In Peru, we understand that.

In the last conversation we had with Minister Baird in Lima, we agreed that it's a difficult task for Canada. We are going to value each step that Canada can take to achieve this goal. For example, I don't know if you've seen the form for requesting a visa to Canada. It's five or six pages long. Sometimes they ask you, how's your father, your mother, your brother, your sister? I always say that is against Canadian privacy laws.

Somebody says they're not going to apply. They prefer going to the States or to the European Union. This is also a problem for tourists and for the students who want to go to Canada to develop their skills here because it's a very good system, cheaper than the United States, and safe, but when they arrive at the Canadian consulate....

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

It's very interesting, and I know Mr. Easter is going to want to hear more of this.

Mr. Easter, the floor is yours.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you.

Yes, I very much appreciated your direct answers to Ron there, Mr. Ambassador.

I'll just follow along that line because I think you were here earlier when we were asking. We have a free-trade agreement. Just what is the concept of the Pacific Alliance? In your response to Ron and earlier, you said beyond strengthening commerce, trade in goods and investment, it's the free mobility of people. Can you expand on that? Nobody has yet—none of the witnesses and certainly not the government—has explained to me what the Pacific Alliance is at the end of the day. You talked about social inclusion. But what does all this mean? Trade in commerce and trade in goods is easy to understand, but what's the end result of the Pacific Alliance?

If I look at the Pacific Alliance, it is certainly not a geographic block because Ecuador isn't in it. You've got Central America in between you folks and Mexico. So just what is the concept at the end of the day?

[José Antonio Raymundo Bellina Acevedo]

The concept is integration between the countries that were to be members of this alliance. For example, whether we are going to have mobility of persons. Right now even in Peru we have a lack of working people, especially on the coast.

Right now we have Chileans and Colombians working in Peru and also we have Peruvians working in Colombia, Mexico, and Chile because we don't need a visa, and it is very easy to fill out the form to have status to work in our country.

When we say education equivalency, we recognize the titles and the basic levels to the university levels. It means that somebody who is an engineer in Peru is going to be recognized as an engineer in Colombia, Chile, and Mexico. This is very important for us. I would like to say something, sorry for this, but a lot of Peruvians came here thinking that they were going to be recognized as engineers, and then they weren't recognized as that. They are working as plumbers sometimes.

That is the difference. The idea is that, if I am an engineer in Peru, I am going to be an engineer in Mexico, Chile, and so on. This is more than that.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

So basically as it relates to people and knowledge, it would be common recognition of their credentials, be they an engineer, a doctor, a dentist, whatever.

[José Antonio Raymundo Bellina Acevedo]

Exactly.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

That's a step ahead from where we were a day ago.

The other point that I've consistently raised with this government is that those on this side of the House are concerned that the government is more interested in basically signing the agreements than their results, because the results haven't shown through to date. Canada is increasingly having trade deficits, and that worries us.

If I look at trade with Peru, you export six times more to us in merchandise trade than we export to you. That's a huge trade deficit for Canada. So it's no wonder that your GDP is increasing and ours not so much.

What is that trade mainly in? Where do you see the opportunities for Canada in this deal?

[José Antonio Raymundo Bellina Acevedo]

I would like to say that in the last three years Canada's exports to Peru increased by almost $100 million after the free trade agreement. In three years they increased 25%. Also the Peruvian goods....

But the main export of Peru to Canada is minerals. Of those minerals, 30% to 45% are from Canadian mining companies. This means that the Canadian companies that invest in Peru and have a profit in Peru pay taxes here.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Oh, they don't pay many taxes here. These guys over there lowered their taxes. They are sitting on $560 billion as a result of this crew over there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Can you just keep the questions and the answers....

[José Antonio Raymundo Bellina Acevedo]

In any case, I think Canada can take more advantage of the free trade agreement with my country.

For example, last November there were 15 infrastructure projects. The largest Canadian companies went to Peru and decided to do business with Peruvian projects. We are opening the scope not only of mining and oil but.... Right now there are Canadian infrastructure companies going to work in Peru.

I think the free trade agreement is also a process. It's not from one day to another that you are going to have a profit; you have to wait a little.

For example, I have been here three years. Each year I go to a supermarket and I see more Peruvian products and goods. You can eat, right now, Peruvian mangoes, bananas, mandarins, papayas. A lot of these products are from Peru thanks to the free trade agreement. We also have new Twin Otters in Peru thanks to the free trade agreement.

It's good. The free trade agreement is a good idea.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

That's very good, and from a guy from Prince Edward Island, they would probably like potatoes. If not, they are going to. It's all going to be good.

Mr. Keddy, the floor is yours.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was worried that I wasn't going to get an opportunity to refute some of the misinformation my colleague across the way has put forth here. Peru is, I think, the original home of the potato, so I would have thought Prince Edward Islanders would get along fairly well with Peruvians.

Maybe I can look at this in a slightly different way. First of all, Ambassador, welcome to the committee. It's great to have you here.

I've always been an optimist. Obviously the opposition members are maybe not so much. I can't help but look at the numbers, many of which you have mentioned yourself. I think numbers speak for themselves.

Your economy is the most rapidly growing economy in South and Central America, one of the best economies in this hemisphere. You have reduced poverty by almost 50%, from 53% to 27%. Surely somebody on the other side can say congratulations. If not, I'll say it for our side.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

That's what Wayne was getting to.