Evidence of meeting #16 for International Trade in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was tpp.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Kevin Boon  General Manager, British Columbia Cattlemen's Association
Paul Newman  President, Vancouver Head Office, Canada Wood Group
Ric Slaco  Vice-President and Chief Forester, Interfor
Yuen Pau Woo  President and Chief Executive Officer, Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada
Stan Van Keulen  Board Member, British Columbia Dairy Association
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Paul Cardegna
Rhonda Driediger  Chair, British Columbia Agriculture Council
Debbie Etsell  Executive Director, B.C. Blueberry Council
Ray Nickel  Representative, British Columbia Agriculture Council
Karimah Es Sabar  President and Chief Executive Officer, Centre for Drug Research and Development
Steve Anderson  Founder and Executive Director, OpenMedia.ca
John Calvert  Associate Professor, Health Sciences, Simon Fraser University, As an Individual
Karim Kassam  Vice-President, Business and Corporate Development, Ballard Power Systems Inc.
Robin Silvester  President and Chief Executive Officer, Port Metro Vancouver
John Winter  President and Chief Executive Officer, British Columbia Chamber of Commerce
Jon Garson  Vice-President, Policy Development Branch, British Columbia Chamber of Commerce

11:15 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada

Yuen Pau Woo

I think it'd be better to bring them in earlier rather than later, for a couple of reasons.

One is that the only way to leave them out until a deal has been concluded among the existing partners is to make a statement of distrust, basically that we don't want China to break into our club at this stage. What will likely precipitate is an alternative trade agreement that China will need, which already is in the works—it's called the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership, RCEP. That creates the risk of another mega-regional agreement among only Asian countries that will potentially serve as a competitor, if you will, to the TPP and a fragmentation, I fear, of Asia-Pacific economic relations that will not be healthy for Canada or for the region as a whole.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Thank you.

Time has gone.

I'd like to ask one more question, it's kind of a follow-up, a general question.

The President of the United States had been on record as wanting the TPP completed by end of last year—last month. Mexico has recently been in the news suggesting that end of April is a possibility. From your perspective—and this goes after some of your answers with regard to China and their entry into the TPP—is that an overly optimistic timeline?

11:15 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada

Yuen Pau Woo

Absolutely.

We heard Harry Reid say just a few days ago that he's not going to support fast-track authority. Without fast-track authority, I think our negotiator should be very careful about putting too many things on the table, because there's no guarantee the Americans can deliver on what they promise.

This is why I go back to my very first point. We have no agreements in Asia, so our strategy should be to get one going somewhere. It should be an all-of-the-above strategy. TPP is a very important part of it, but it's not the only game in town. Let's make sure we keep all our options open.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Thank you very much for your testimony, both of you. We certainly appreciate your time with us.

With that, we'll suspend as we set up the next panel.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

We'll call the meeting back to order and have our members take their seats. We'll move right on to our next panellists.

We have Rhonda Driediger from the British Columbia Agriculture Council. Thank you for being here. You have with you Ray Nickel as a representative. I understand you will be presenting.

We also have Debra Etsell, executive director of the B.C. Blueberry Council. Thank you for being here. You will be presenting second.

First of all, the floor is yours, Rhonda, and we look forward to your presentation.

February 4th, 2014 / 11:30 a.m.

Rhonda Driediger Chair, British Columbia Agriculture Council

Thank you.

I apologize upfront that I speak extremely quickly, but everything is written down in case you need it.

Good morning, and thank you for the opportunity to contribute to the TPP consultation process.

Here's a bit of background about the B.C. Agriculture Council. We are the province's umbrella farm group, so commodities such as blueberries, strawberries, and dairy all belong to the BCAC as its umbrella group. We're a council of commodity groups and through our members we represent 14,000 of the 20,000 B.C. farm families who in turn generate 96% of the farm-gate receipts in British Columbia. Agriculture is the third largest resource sector in the province, playing a significant and important role in the overall provincial economy.

The farmers represented by BCAC include those focused on international export opportunities, as well as those focused on supplying the domestic market. We understand that trade is a complicated discussion, especially as it pertains to agriculture. Our hope is that Canada will continue applying a balanced approach to agricultural trade negotiations. BCAC fully supports Canada's pursuit of bilateral and multilateral free trade agreements. We are also pleased with the assurances made by the federal government to continue supporting supply-managed commodities and defending our supply management systems in trade negotiations.

Primary agriculture differs from other industrial sectors. Individual farmers, not large integrated corporations, are the main drivers of this industry. We overcome diverse challenges to produce high-quality food for both domestic and international customers in a financially and environmentally sustainable manner.

A lot of my points today will be echoed by the CFA, the Canadian Federation of Agriculture, but I'd just like to point out a few that pertain to British Columbia.

On basic trade policy goals, the BCAC supports the following general trade policy goals that apply to the TPP: working towards bilateral and regional trade agreements that strengthen trade ties with key customers for Canadian agriculture; securing outcomes that benefit all Canadian agriculture by maximizing export opportunities and ensuring trade rules that allow for the maintenance of an effective supply management system; eliminating all dumping and export subsidies in agriculture; preserving farmers' rights and government's ability to enable, design, and operate marketing boards and orderly marketing systems necessary for the stability and profitability of Canadian agriculture; and allowing for domestic programs to ensure the stability and profitability of Canadian agriculture. I believe our safety net programs often come up on the table during these discussions, so we'd like those to be protected.

We also support recognizing that agriculture has evolved differently between countries, resulting in each country having its own unique sensitivities; and ensuring that one commodity is not traded off to enhance the interests of another commodity, nor that agriculture is traded off in general for another industry sector. We get enough of that at home, so we don't want to see it internationally.

Trade negotiation strategy is of course what our negotiators are going to be developing, but one thing to remember in Canada is that we're not the only country with sensitivities. Some of these examples, as you have found out recently and have been dealing with, are the U.S. position on sugar, dairy, textiles, and other commodities; and New Zealand's strict sanitary and phytosanitary measures that restrict access, including for the importation of fresh and frozen pork and poultry, essentially making these products prohibited. New Zealand has also made it clear it will not permit TPP disciplines on intellectual property that interfere with its pharmacare program.

One issue we do have, especially with our organic producers, is reciprocal standards. It's not just organic, but it's how we define and how we standardize here in Canada that we would like respected. Canadian commodity groups have implemented numerous on-farm certification programs related to food safety, animal welfare, environmental measures, etc., to address regulatory requirements. As these gate-to-plate programs increase the cost of doing business, Canada must ensure that in assessing equivalency, imports are produced under equivalent certification programs and regulatory requirements.

One thing that we're also looking for in agriculture, for those of us who do a lot of direct marketing, is to have that marketing structure—I keep using the term respected, but not lost in the negotiations. There are a lot of different ways people sell all over the world...to actually not have any of that restricted. I know there will be a question coming on that, which Deb will answer.

I'm not sure if anyone has brought up a dispute settlement mechanism. We do have some domestically, but I don't think we have any internationally at the moment. That's very important. It will be an integral component to any well-functioning trade system. BCAC supports a more effective and transparent dispute settlement process that ensures a timely outcome and payment.

As exporters we've run into non-tariff barriers in agriculture for decades. Something may not be written down, but something is underlying, especially for organic and for greenhouse. Again, it goes back to proper labelling. The greenhouse sector right now is fighting with the term “greenhouse growing” for peppers and tomatoes because in some countries they're just putting shade cloth over top, field growing them, and then calling them greenhouse and asking for the additional premium.

The proper labelling standards, including the labelling of country of origin, help ensure that consumers are provided with sound, factual information about the product they are purchasing. However, such labelling should not be disguised as a means to modify the conditions of competition between imported and domestically produced products.

I believe Mr. Woo also covered intellectual property rights in his presentation. We're also looking for trade and labour standards. Trade agreements must incorporate the recognition of basic human rights and labour standards as integral to the social fabric and economic development of a nation.

In conclusion, the B.C. Agriculture Council supports Canada's pursuit of trade agreements that benefit all Canadian agriculture, maximize export opportunities, and allow for maintenance of an effective supply management system.

We're looking forward to some questions.

Thank you.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Thank you very much for your presentation.

Now, Debbie Etsell, the floor is yours.

11:35 a.m.

Debbie Etsell Executive Director, B.C. Blueberry Council

I'd like to thank you for this opportunity to give you a brief overview of the B.C. blueberry industry and our support for the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

B.C. Blueberry Council represents close to 800 growers who produce 96% of all the highbush blueberries in Canada. We are the largest producing region in the world and growing at a steady rate. Production from the 2013 season is estimated to be approximately 120 million pounds, of which over half is exported outside Canada. Blueberries are the number one fruit exported out of Canada at this time. The B.C. blueberry industry had initially exported produce, outside of domestic consumption, mostly to the United States of America, but has expanded to various global markets over the last 10 years, including several of the countries involved in the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

In 2012 we exported 2.5 million kilograms to our second largest export partner, Japan, and 401,000 kilograms to Australia. Currently, we ship processed blueberries to South Korea while waiting for Canada and South Korea to conclude negotiations for fresh market access. In 2013 the B.C. Blueberry Council extended our long-term international strategy to include the emerging markets of Malaysia, Vietnam, and Singapore due to the interests from those markets.

One of the new challenges our industry has is the higher tariff rates compared to other blueberry producing countries. Prospective buyers comment that they see Canadian blueberries as a quality product, but the difference in cost due to these tariffs is prohibitive. This has been very evident in South Korea where Canada was building some growth and it was coming along quite nicely. Canadian product was being recognized as one to look at, but when Chile and the U.S. reached their free trade agreements, our sales plummeted due to a 30% to 37% difference in tariffs.

In closing, the B.C. Blueberry Council supports the negotiations of the Trans-Pacific Partnership to help sustain our industry to be a healthy Canadian trade partner in the future.

Thank you.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Thank you very much.

We'll move to questions and answers.

Mr. Sandhu, you have seven minutes.

11:40 a.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

Thank you very much.

Welcome to the committee and thank you for being here this morning. I picked blueberries back in the eighties and I eat blueberries every morning, so we buy about 200 to 250 pounds a year. I know it's an excellent source of a lot of nutritional stuff that we should be eating, so I'm fully supportive of the blueberry industry in the Fraser Valley.

The TPP talks began back in 2005 and the negotiations started in 2008. Canada did not enter the talks until 2012 and by that time we'd had 14 rounds of negotiations and part of the conditions for us to get in was that those rounds had been negotiated. We wouldn't be opening them up; they're set in place.

Are you concerned that we weren't at the table for those 14 rounds?

11:40 a.m.

Chair, British Columbia Agriculture Council

Rhonda Driediger

You know, there's nothing we can do about the past. I think what we're concerned about is moving forward, especially for our exporting commodities, and moving forward with what we can change.

11:40 a.m.

Executive Director, B.C. Blueberry Council

Debbie Etsell

I think the EU agreement was a huge step forward. I see the concern that some people have had, but the current environment for trade negotiations for Canada, the program that's in place right now is one of the most ambitious I've seen for any of the countries. So we're very encouraged by what's coming forward, and the Trans-Pacific Partnership is part of that.

11:40 a.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

You pointed out that the trade agreement is very ambitious. We've seen trade agreements that have been negotiated with Japan for the last nine years, and haven't been concluded. We actually started negotiating with South Korea before the Americans, and I guess you're paying the price for that because we don't have proper access to those markets.

Are you concerned? We've been talking about negotiating these trade agreements with these South Asian countries, which would benefit especially the blueberry growers in British Columbia. Are you concerned about the number of years it's taken for our government to conclude any sort of viable, concrete trade agreements with these very important partners?

11:40 a.m.

Executive Director, B.C. Blueberry Council

Debbie Etsell

The growers have seen what you're mentioning, in the past, but what we're seeing going forward is having that EU trade agreement being negotiated and ratified right now. It encourages us that some of the delays that have maybe happened in the past are definitely moving forward, and that Canada is seen as somebody to negotiate trade deals with, whereas before there wasn't as much history.

We see the future as one where there will be a lot of negotiations going on, and we even see it day-to-day right now. We're involved in many negotiations for different market access.

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

I have a question for Mr. Nickel—

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Mrs. Driediger, did you want to comment?

11:45 a.m.

Chair, British Columbia Agriculture Council

Rhonda Driediger

Just to add to Debbie's answer, I don't think that blueberries specifically are being shut out. I think that this particular commodity is extremely popular around the world, especially Canadian blueberries.

I think that the consumers of these countries are pushing their governments to make a deal. I think where we're behind is negotiating on the actual rate of the tariff. I think some countries are maybe stalling a little bit to slow the process down, but I think what we should be looking at as well, once we have an agreement, are the rates of tariffs because it doesn't matter if we can go to China if we're 35% higher rated than everyone else.

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

Besides negotiating these possible trade agreements with TPP or other bilateral agreements, how else can the government work with the industry, or your sector, to enhance your ability to export, enhance your ability to compete? How else can the government work together with your industry?

11:45 a.m.

Chair, British Columbia Agriculture Council

Rhonda Driediger

I think our federal representatives, the staff, have been amazing in pushing forward for blueberries and for dark sweet cherries, especially into China. They have really gone above and beyond getting the inspectors here, getting the protocols established, and I think we're very, very close on cherries. I think they should be going in this year unfettered, and blueberries, we're hoping soon.

The little bit of a hang-up right now is just on testing for any insect contamination, and what actual tests they accept.

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

Testing on the part of the government here, or what the other governments accept?

11:45 a.m.

Chair, British Columbia Agriculture Council

Rhonda Driediger

I'll let Debbie answer that.

11:45 a.m.

Executive Director, B.C. Blueberry Council

Debbie Etsell

It's part of the negotiations. We've been with China for a long time, and several things have come back on our pest risk assessment. This was something where they have so many countries coming at them right now for blueberries. It's a popular fruit, as you mentioned yourself. They are just trying to make sure that everything is in a row, and therefore, they're making sure that every single thing....

They also don't produce that many blueberries, so they don't really understand how to treat pests or what some of the protocols are for making sure that there aren't any of those pests, if they're present, coming into their country. I think that they ask a lot of questions about unknown things, and it sort of elongates the consultation process until they make sure they are absolutely sure.

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

Have you had the chance to—

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Rhonda, please give a quick answer.

11:45 a.m.

Chair, British Columbia Agriculture Council

Rhonda Driediger

This goes back again to the non-tariff barriers. I think China is one of the countries negotiating in good faith on this aspect, but it's something about which we have to be careful that countries don't use as a trade barrier.