Evidence of meeting #5 for International Trade in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was europe.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
So Canada's product will be 20% cheaper. Will Iceland just reduce their product to match Canada's pricing?
9:20 a.m.
President, Fisheries Council of Canada
Right now we are not in the game, because we can't compete. What we'll be doing, hopefully, is competing with Norway and Iceland on a level playing field. We're confident, because we have the resource, in terms of cooked and peeled shrimp. Right now, our offshore catch, which is shell-on shrimp, is selling to Norway and Iceland because their resources have reduced and they're doing cooked and peeled shrimp and selling directly into retail.
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
How about demand or supply? Do we have enough supply to feed the demand that would be anticipated?
9:20 a.m.
President, Fisheries Council of Canada
The bottom line is that we are a wild fishery, and you are structured by your resource. One of the things I pointed out concerns diversification. Our major markets right now are China and Russia. What we'll probably see to a large extent, as we become more competitive in Europe, is diversification into the European market, about which our exporters feel a little more confident.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to our witnesses.
Thanks, Mr. Dias, and congratulations on August 31—a big day for you and your association.
First of all, I wanted to clarify a comment that my colleague Mr. O'Toole raised about transparency. You mentioned that in collective bargaining you let your members understand what is in the deal, but they don't get to see the final text. Is that true?
9:25 a.m.
National President, Unifor
That's not what I said at all. I said we take to our members the deal. We will have highlight sheets, but we will also have signed documents. If people want an actual copy of the signed document, they get it. They get a collective agreement that has every word spelled out in it. So they vote on the entire package; they know every detail.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
I can speak from first-hand experience, I used to be sales supervisor with a multinational corporation and I was for four and a half years a member of CAW and whatever the paperworkers union is called. We had a strike in 1995 and were not allowed to see the final agreement. The union representatives told us it was a good deal and gave the context overall and said we should support it. I said it was my wife and my family...and I'd like to see the agreement before I sign off on it, but we weren't allowed to. I can only speak from first-hand experience about how that happened.
9:25 a.m.
National President, Unifor
I'm sure there are exceptions to every rule. I think that's completely ridiculous, and your government should be taking the position that you just took on people being able to see the final deal before any of the votes are taken. So I agree with your basic principle.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Okay, thanks.
With regard to CAW and now Unifor, what free trade agreements have you supported?
9:25 a.m.
National President, Unifor
We certainly didn't support NAFTA, or we certainly didn't support free trade. They would be the two main ones, I would suggest, that have impacted Canadians, and if you take a look at the proof in the pudding, our manufacturing sector has been disseminated. Our auto sector is a mere resemblance of what it was. We've lost 700,000-plus manufacturing jobs. So I think we can have a very good debate on how free trade deals have negatively impacted Canadians. We have whole industries that have been wiped right out.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
So just on that, I know that going back to 1987 when Bob White was the CAW president, when the NAFTA was being discussed, he had a Globe and Mail article. It says:
...a Rambo, dog-eat-dog, survival of the fittest society with no ability to maintain our social programs or ability to structure our own economy.
Mr. Broadbent had indicated in 1987 that the border would cease to exist in 25 years.
So here we are in 2013, with four and a half million jobs created with NAFTA, $740 billion in bilateral trade, 35 out of the 50 states, our number one trading partner.... They continue to be our biggest allies who want to diversify. Mr. Stanford, who is the union economist, now says we're going to lose about 150,000 jobs with the CETA.
Do you stand by his statement with that?
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
So making all those statements, how could you say you're going to potentially support this?
9:25 a.m.
National President, Unifor
No, there are winners and losers. The fishing industry may win if, in fact, there is a commitment to do more processing not just on peel and eat shrimp. If there's going to be a commitment to much more processing, then it could be a benefit for Canadians. But if you take a look at the manufacturing, if you take a look at the deficit, the outrageous deficit we already have in trade with Europe, nobody realistically can believe that this deficit is going to narrow. As a matter of fact, it's fully expected that the deficit will continue to grow.
Was it Mulroney who said trading with the United States is like an elephant rolling over on a mouse?
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
I have just a last comment about transparency. Minister Fast was the witness at our last trade committee and he talked about how this has been the most open, transparent negotiations. Basically, the Federation of Canadian Municipalities and the provinces, the industries across the nation, have been consulted, and the stakeholders themselves have been informed of the outcome.
I have to disagree. I've been on this committee almost eight years and it's been a very open and transparent process.
I'd like to pass the floor to Mr. Shory, please.
November 19th, 2013 / 9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Devinder Shory Conservative Calgary Northeast, AB
Thank you.
Thank you to the witnesses also for coming here.
In my riding of Calgary Northeast, I had a clear message that free trade is always good for business, good for Canadians. When I heard Mr. Dias this morning, I quickly went to do some research on this, and what I found out was a little disturbing. Even before the CETA was tabled or declared here in Canada, in August, I read one of your statements. You were asked a question, and you simply said that in 2015, “We will do what we can to make sure that Conservatives are defeated.” This was before, and today I heard that you are absolutely against the CETA.
Then I went a little further. I read that the CEP, one of the merger unions, endorses the NDP. When you were asked the question on whether you would endorse the NDP in 2015, you particularly said, “We will do whatever it takes to defeat the Conservatives”. So your position is clear. You work with the NDP hand in hand—your union.
I like bluntness.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Devinder Shory Conservative Calgary Northeast, AB
You have a very clear answer that your union is simply against the CETA. I thought the NDP had changed their mind on this trade deal. My question is this. When you can make a decision based on the information you have, how is it that the NDP is not able to make a decision on it? Or what is behind it?
9:30 a.m.
National President, Unifor
First of all, let me explain the politics of our organization. We are not beholden to any one party. I want to make that clear. We have taken a position of strategic voting.
Does our organization have a wonderful relationship with your government? The answer is no. If we take a look at some of the legislation before the House today, it's obvious why we don't have a wonderful relationship. My guess is that'll be a discussion for another day.
As it relates to the CEP endorsing the NDP, that was the CEP's formal position. Our council will determine our politics. I am quite candid as to where we sit. We are an organization that is going to think independently.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield
Thank you very much. That ends the first round.
I'm going to use the chair's prerogative to ask one question of Mr. McGuinness.
You talked about the opportunity for increased activity in the fishing industry with the CETA. Do you have a job estimate? How many jobs would be created in Canada?
9:30 a.m.
President, Fisheries Council of Canada
Basically, we're looking at this as diversification of our export strategy and prosperity, by making the industry more economically viable.
As for jobs, right now we are harvesting the quotas that we harvest and we're employing the people we employ. Whether we can harvest more is solely dependent upon the condition of resources. In the fishing industry, you can't really talk about trade agreements of this nature in terms of employment opportunities. It has more to do with prosperity opportunities and diversifying into more stable and lucrative markets.