International Trade Committee on April 18th, 2016

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Can you share a concrete example of a small business success story?

[David Crawford]

Absolutely. We do some work with a company on Vancouver Island that exports to an Asian country. I won't say which one because it's proprietary knowledge. They have taken their business from about a $50-million-a-year business to $100 million a year of export. They're providing unionized, good-paying jobs in Vancouver Island. For them, the tariffs that would come off in Japan, in particular, and in Malaysia would.... As they've explained to us, they're prepared to put people on the ground today if they get a signal from government that it was going to be a positive response, or the government would make the decision. They're already looking at markets and growing their business because they're not going to grow it in North America. It's just not going to happen. Obviously, when we look at the situation with the softwood lumber dispute, shall we say, with the United States, our orientation is to look towards Asia as opposed to elsewhere in North America to grow markets, because they're saturated.

But, yes, there are companies here. The other one we would look at as well is in clean technology. Obviously, as the investment in oil and gas wanes, as there's a shift there to other sources of lower carbon fuel, they're beginning to look at other markets. And you can take waste-water treatment and export it to countries in situations where waste-water treatment is necessary. Currently the tariffs are impossible for us to do that. Under the TPP, that would change. It doesn't mean it will go, but it would obviously take away one of those large barriers.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

With a potential ratification of the TPP, for your members, have you assessed the risks, the pitfalls to B.C., to Vancouver, and even in Canada as a whole?

[David Crawford]

From an economic standpoint, the risk is not planning it. The Province of British Columbia has estimated that the economic impact would be a reduction of $200 million in economic activity.

The benefit we enjoy in British Columbia is that we have the most diverse economy in Canada. Part of that is that when we look at our trading partners, we measure, obviously, and look at east-west comparisons, and when we look at national or subnational governments, our largest trading partners are the United States, Ontario, China, Japan, then Alberta. Our orientation is very much—because we sit, obviously, in a gateway port from which $500 million in goods a day travel in and out of the port.... Then again there's the Port of Prince Rupert, which is very much tethered to Winnipeg and points east from there. Our orientation is very much to look at economic growth by diversifying.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you very much.

My next question is to Ms. Sayers. This committee has been entrusted with and we're focused on public consultation. I want to ask you what public consultation took place under the previous government? Was there any? Were there any meetings or anything that you could share with us?

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

In all fairness, that seems to be a loaded question. She only has 15 seconds, and I don't think, to be fair to the witness.... What I would suggest is that your colleagues ask that question to give her proper time in the next round. How is that?

We're going to go on to the NDP for five minutes.

Ms. Ramsey.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Ms. Sayers, I share your deep frustration with the previous government's treatment of indigenous people. I also share your hope for a true nation-to-nation relationship with our current government, and I think that this agreement is a large piece of their true intention.

According to reports, the UN Special Rapporteur on the rights of indigenous peoples, Victoria Tauli Corpuz, stated in an interview that the major issue with the TPP is “the clause of non-discrimination between a local and an international investor”. The TPP “grants more rights to transnational firms, often at the expense of indigenous rights”. The interview goes on to say, “This is a crucial issue, she argued, as most of the remaining natural resources available on earth are located on indigenous lands—because protecting them is part of the indigenous culture, or because they are located on remote lands.”

Could you expand on how the TPP's ISDS provisions may impact indigenous people's ability to defend the land and water, and the interests of future generations?

[Brenda Sayers]

Sure.

Through the ISDS clause, it grants corporations the right to charge Canada if the first nations disagree with any development of resources on their lands.

As an example, Grand Chief Stewart Phillip is on his way to Ottawa as we speak, with a delegation of chiefs, to speak about his concerns regarding PETRONAS and its impact on wild salmon in the Skeena River.

We must have the right to protect the lands and resources. When we talk about climate change, we're talking about something that is going to affect all of us, not just here in Canada, but worldwide. That's how we are all connected. It's in our interest to protect the land and future generations.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

I'd like to pick up where Mr. Fonseca left off.

In your experience, how has the current federal government consulted with indigenous peoples on the TPP over the past number of years?

[Brenda Sayers]

We have not been consulted.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Would you say that approach is consistent with the notion of nation-to-nation relationships with first nations peoples?

[Brenda Sayers]

No, it is not.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

In the same way, I'd like to ask that question of others who are currently sitting at the table. In accordance with her mandate letter, Canada's Minister of International Trade is expected to consult on Canada's potential participation in the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Can each of you say whether or not you have been consulted by the current government?

[David Crawford]

I can confirm that this is the first point of contact.

[Kevin Boon]

From the British Columbia Cattlemen's Association's point of view, this would be the first time, but our Canadian affiliate group has certainly been in touch and has been talking with the current government on the importance of this trade deal.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

The question I have now is for Mr. Boon. The Canadian cow herd has been in decline for 10 years, and in this environment Canadian beef processors are challenged to secure cattle supplies to serve existing customers and use existing processing capacity. How would the beef producers be affected by the tariff reductions on beef products, then?

[Kevin Boon]

As I alluded to, we are very much dependent on trade, but it comes down to the fact that matching the product with the country or with the consumer is huge to us. Some of the countries will prefer organ meat, for example, that we would typically put into our ground or get very little value for. This will increase that value.

On the processing side of things, as I said, we have dropped from 320,000 down to 185,000 head of cattle, a lot of that due to the effects of BSE and the long-term problems with that. Our packing industry and processing industry shrank. Where we come into jeopardy if we're not in this—and especially if the U.S. is involved in this, because live cattle trade to the U.S. is possible— is we'll lose further jobs to the U.S. by cattle moving south, being processed south of the border, and then going into markets like Japan and Vietnam, and whatnot.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

If your herd is diminished, how will you do that?

[Kevin Boon]

Our herd is poised for regrowth. Right now we're looking for the signals. We've seen the price of cattle just about double over the last three years, so those producers who have have made that infrastructure and that investment over the past 10 years of BSE are getting that paid back. They're now ready to expand. We saw last year alone, instead of a 15% retention in females, up to 30% here in B.C. already. We're ready to go; it's just a matter of the ability to participate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you very much.

We're going to move back to the Liberals.

Madam Ludwig.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you all for your presentations.

I'm going to start off with Ms. Sayers. First, I'd like to acknowledge that I'm from the traditional territory of the Passamaquoddy tribe in St. Andrews, New Brunswick.

I'm not sure whether we met last week at the EDAC conference, but one comment I'd like to make before I give my question is that during that conference, when I was the host MP, it came out very strongly that the chiefs wanted to be involved in consultation. We're very pleased as a committee that you are here today to consult with us, because as a nation this is very critical for all of us; it's important.

If we could go back a year and a half or two years and there were more of a discussion and input from the first nations community, what would you want to put forward?

[Brenda Sayers]

That's a good question, and I want to state that we're not against trade. We understand how important it is.

I think what we would like to point out is that the ISDS has nothing to do with trade.

When I was the portfolio holder for the Canada-China FIPA, what we wanted to include in the body of the agreement was the acknowledgement of the aboriginal entitlement treaty rights. That did not exist in that agreement, nor does it exist in the TPP. We feel it's imperative that there is recognition of undisputed rights and title in that agreement so we can protect our original lands.

Does that answer your question?

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

It does, thank you very much.

Mr. Crawford, I definitely applaud you for recognizing the trade accelerator program in the Toronto area. I think if we're looking at best practices and examples that is definitely a good one.

You mentioned that 98% of the businesses amongst the board of trade are small to medium-sized businesses. What would you consider under your definition as a small business?

[David Crawford]

We use the same definition as the Province of British Columbia, and that would be 50 employees or less.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Okay. Thank you.

I ask that question because coming from New Brunswick, often it's less than 10.