Evidence of meeting #13 for International Trade in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was tpp.
1:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking
Thank you. That's your time, Mr. Dhaliwal.
That's it for the first round. We're going to start a second round now. The Liberals are going to start off.
Ms. Ludwig, you have five minutes.
1:25 p.m.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
Thank you, and thank you, panellists, for your excellent presentations. I have questions in a couple of areas. I wanted to comment that the temporary foreign workers program is under review right now and under study by another parliamentary committee. There are some changes that are coming up with that one. Many of us do agree about the path to citizenship. That's an important avenue for that to be opened up.
My question first is to Mr. Rebeck. In terms of labour mobility, how does your organization respond to the e-transfer of tech services, where no one is coming to Canada but the services are e-transfers, such as architectural drawings, engineering services, and financial services. Does your organization have a comment, or a position on that?
1:25 p.m.
President, Manitoba Federation of Labour
No, I'm not too knowledgeable in that area. We don't represent workers in the architectural section.
1:25 p.m.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
Okay. Great.
We are reaching out, Ms. DePape, to indigenous communities as well. They will be consulted in the TPP negotiations and discussions, so that is promising. As government officials, we emphasize the importance of consultation from coast to coast to coast. I want to put that forward. They are included in this as well.
In terms of preparation, I would say that from a skills development experience, certainly for any Canadian group, whether indigenous or other communities across the country, one key to effective trade I have often seen is preparation. It is skills training. It is succession planning. It is getting prepared.
Looking at the indigenous community, we do have a responsibility, but we also have a tremendous opportunity there in terms of an investment in training. I believe that, with the $8.4 million that is set aside specifically for indigenous training, one of those areas should be trade preparation. That is a community that has tremendous opportunities to offer to all of us.
Do you see a role within your organizations to feed into any kind of...? I know you don't necessarily have issues with the agreement itself, but are there areas or opportunities that you foresee that should be introduced in the training aspect for indigenous communities, as well as for other young people across Canada, in preparation for any trade agreement?
1:30 p.m.
President, Manitoba Federation of Labour
There's lots that needs to be done there, and I think all our organizations share that interest. The labour movement certainly is wrestling with this question of how we do it. It's a great question. It doesn't fit, necessarily, with a TPP deal that's written and rather set in stone. It is something we need to address and build some better partnerships for finding ways to work together to create employment opportunities for the Canadians we have here already.
I think the TPP puts some handcuffs on those opportunities, and that certainly limits it. This is one of the reasons we're here today. To say that this is a great conversation, and many of these questions are very good, but the question that's going to be before the government is whether the deal that's already set in stone is a yea or a nay. For all the reasons we're talking about, it needs to be a nay.
1:30 p.m.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
If it turns out that the government ratifies the agreement, how would or could the Manitoba Federation of Labour support labour in Canada after a ratification?
1:30 p.m.
President, Manitoba Federation of Labour
I think the labour movement continues to work within the boundaries that are set before us. It will be another barrier that we need to figure out how to manoeuver around and how to work within. We will continue to work in partnership with indigenous people. We will continue to work in partnership with the unemployed and with workers who are not covered by unions. We do our best to raise the bar on health and safety standards and working conditions.
We'll continue to try to create training and have a skilled workforce and support workers of all stripes, but we hope we won't be doing it with yet another barrier in front of us.
1:30 p.m.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
Okay, thank you.
I probably have two more questions.
To Mr. Tingey, it would be—
1:30 p.m.
Liberal
1:30 p.m.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
Okay.
Looking at your international experience, do you recognize that international people coming to Canada and working and then returning to their home countries take with them Canadian practices and standards? Does that have the possibility of raising expectations and standards in their country?
1:30 p.m.
Member, The Council of Canadians
Yes.
I don't think we have enter into the TPP in order to ensure that happens. I think we have to open our schools and give people the opportunity to come here and do things. This is not going to change the day after the TPP is ratified.
1:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking
Thank you, sir.
Thank you, Ms. Ludwig. That wraps up your time.
We're going to go over to the Conservatives. We have Mr. Van Kesteren, for five minutes.
Go ahead, sir.
1:30 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON
Thank you, Chair. Thank you all for coming.
Mr. Rebeck, we're here in Manitoba, and we've heard, as was mentioned previously, about the pulses, the grains, and everything. You mentioned the auto industry, and that's my neck of the woods so I want to talk about that briefly.
When I was first elected, back in 2006, the auto industry told us, “This is what we need, we need harmonization, and we need that bridge”. I remember we went on an industry tour when we were talking about these things. The late Jean Lapierre, who was the transport minister, talked about that and he said, “You will never build that bridge”.
Well, we're building that bridge and we've harmonized. Not only have we done that, but the auto industry in 2009 was finished, crippled, on its knees, and we bailed them out for something to the tune of $9 billion. I take a bit of offence when you say the Harper government wasn't active in doing what they could to save the auto industry and to help it to grow. We've had centres of excellence that we've continued to pour money into. In essence, we've done everything the auto industry has done and more, much more.
I want to add to that, there's opportunities now, too. The Ford plant in Brantford has a new international platform. Once this EU agreement takes place, they'll be able to transport those cars to Europe, and so will the Honda plant in Cambridge.
What could we have done that we didn't do to help the auto industry? You opened it up, so I'm going to give you that opportunity. What could we have done?
1:35 p.m.
President, Manitoba Federation of Labour
Sir, I opened it up by saying that we need to make sure we protect jobs in the auto industry. I didn't say that any job.... I didn't lay anything on Harper's government on losing jobs. I said that we're going to lose another 20,000—
1:35 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON
You're talking about this trade agreement as being something that would hinder that. What in the world could it hinder? I'm at a loss as to where that's going.
1:35 p.m.
President, Manitoba Federation of Labour
Jobs can be easily moved out to other countries that pay low wages and have less health and safety regulations—
1:35 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON
What does that have to do with the trade agreement? That can still happen.
1:35 p.m.
President, Manitoba Federation of Labour
You're going to make it even easier. The TPP will make that trade in vehicles even higher, likely—
1:35 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON
Isn't it the case with every industry that if they're not competitive their market is going to dry up? Is that not the case?
1:35 p.m.
President, Manitoba Federation of Labour
I get your question. I guess my question in return is: is our trade deal is solely supposed to be about maximizing a company's ability to make profit? If so, TPP's doing it.
If it's about allowing the government to maintain some ability to set controls, to set working conditions, to pay good wages, to have some standards that are protected, and if the government recognizes there is a responsibility to set that role, this trade deal fails that.
1:35 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON
I would argue that when a business is profitable, that's when hiring is done and that's when we expand our businesses.
I want to ask you one last question. There was a former colleague of yours in western Canada, in Calgary. We got talking about the foreign workers. I'm going to ask you the same question. Ms. Ludwig knows where I'm going with this. She has a fish processing plant. I am concerned about this too. I have a number of foreign workers who are working on the farm programs. Do you think that should be extended to those as well? Do you think the government made the right move by allowing foreign workers to work in those fish processing plants just about two months ago? Is that something you would agree to?
1:35 p.m.
President, Manitoba Federation of Labour
I don't know the details of that particular case.
1:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking
I know you guys have a good flow going here, but you just have a half a minute to wrap it up.
1:35 p.m.
President, Manitoba Federation of Labour
I think we need to have some ability to make sure that we can have people fill the jobs. Did we do enough to employ local people and make sure that we've canvassed that out? Have we built the environment to train and support skilled workers who can fill those jobs? I think there's room to do more. I think we need to continue to figure out how we do that to the best of our ability. Then the next test should be, can we fill it with a permanent immigration stream that allows workers and their families to come and do that work? Then our final test should be, if we can't do those things, then a temporary solution of workers coming who maintain some rights, have standards, and have protections is the next phase.