International Trade Committee on April 21st, 2016

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

The CCPA put out a report called “Bait-and-Switch: The Trans-Pacific Partnership’s Promised Environmental Protections Do Not Deliver”.

Can you please speak on chapter 20 of the TPP?

[Lynne Fernandez]

I'm sorry, I did not have time to bring myself up to speed on that before I came.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Okay

We've also heard from some of the panellists today that in terms of environmental protections and help, there would be help in terms of “lifting all boats”, as my colleague Mr. Ritz likes to say, with many of the TPP countries when it comes to food safety.

Is that something you would agree with?

[Lynne Fernandez]

I'm not sure I understand the question.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

In terms of raising the standard of food safety, Canada has a very high standard, and the ability then to lift other countries within the TPP to that higher standard.

Have you looked at Canada's standards and being able to help other nations reach a higher standard and a level playing field?

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

We just have a half a minute left. You can wrap it up.

[Lynne Fernandez]

I'd be surprised if that were the case. This is all about harmonizing regulations, and when we talk about harmonizing, our experience is that we tend to harmonize down, we don't harmonize up. Our food safety has greatly deteriorated in Canada recently because of cuts to the public sector. We have regulation but we don't enforce it, so I would be surprised if we got any better on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you very much.

We're finished the first round. We'll move to the second round, starting with the Liberals.

Mr. Peterson, you have five minutes.

[Kyle Peterson, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, panellists, for being here today, and for your informative presentations. We do appreciate it.

To either Chris or Jean-Marc, if the TPP goes forward, are you worried or are you confident that your industry has the capacity to tap into that market? I know there might be some infrastructure problems. If there are, how would you work around those to make sure that any benefits from the new markets are fully realized?

[Jean-Marc Ruest]

We're absolutely certain that we can tap into those markets. That's the business we're in—the international exports business. Those markets tend to change over time depending on need, etc., and we're very confident in our ability to meet that demand.

Don't forget, as well, that one of the points we made in our submission was the consequences of not being a party and therefore of losing access. There is one component that's increasing trade. The other component, the flip side of it, is losing access to those markets in which we already conduct significant trade.

[Chris Vervaet]

To add to that, our industry is definitely prepared in terms of meeting the new capacity demands of new markets. Japan in particular is really where we have our focus on exporting more vegetable oil.

As I said in my presentation, we already have the capacity to crush 10-million metric tonnes of seed. We're crushing about eight million tonnes, so there's room already with our existing capacity. As I speak, some of my members are already putting more investments into facilities to increase capacity.

Our goal is to get to 14 million tonnes, and we're well under way. I think getting access into the Japanese market is really the impetus for us to continue to invest in Canada for high value products.

[Kyle Peterson, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Are you confident that you will be able to get those produced and processed goods to the market? There's not going to be any bottleneck in the infrastructure that we have now?

[Wade Sobkowich, Executive Director, Western Grain Elevator Association]

The one caveat is, we have the capacity on the processing side; we have the capacity in the country elevator system; farmers have the equipment and the capacity on farm to produce and store it; and we have the ability on the port side of things; but we need to get the Canada Transportation Act figured out because that's really what we view as the bottleneck in the system. It regulates our ability to get product to tidewater. But we're optimistic that this government can sort out the Canada Transportation Act as well.

[Kyle Peterson, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you for that clarification.

Ms. Fernandez, you were alluding to Manitoba Hydro. I just need some clarification. You mentioned Manitoba water as well. You said that agricultural products are obviously going to continue to grow in exports, and then that Manitoba Hydro plays a big role in the development of Manitoba's economy. You mentioned something about water. I wasn't clear if your point was that Manitoba's water would be at risk under TPP, or what that point was that you were trying to make.

[Lynne Fernandez]

I shouldn't have conflated Manitoba Hydro with water as a commodity.

The commodification of water in Canada is something that we have been worried about for a long time. Once we start exporting water as a commodity to the United States, which is something that has been proposed and fought against, we worry that we will lose control of it. Because we have so much in Manitoba, it would be a concern of mine.

I don't know if that's on the table in the TPP, but it's something that we need to know more about and to consider.

[Kyle Peterson, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

My understanding of your comment was that the TPP puts the commodification of Manitoba's water into play and at risk.

[Lynne Fernandez]

It's a question I have. I'd like to know if it does or not.

It's an ongoing theme in Canada and has been over roughly the last 20 years.

[Kyle Peterson, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

I just wanted some clarification, so I thank you for that.

Is it your position that patents are bad in general for the pharmaceutical industry? Or is it your position that the increased length of the patents in this deal is the issue?

[Lynne Fernandez]

Probably both. I'm not an expert on patents, but some of the research and reading I've done would indicate that there are better ways of doing them and that they probably need to be updated and modernized. Some proposals have come out in terms of how you could change the patent system so that you would make it actually work better for consumers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you.

We're going to move over to the Conservatives.

Mr. Maguire, go ahead, sir.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I'll ask the question in probably a little different way from what my colleague Mr. Fonseca indicated. I just want to point out that it's research that has been of the key areas in growing our agricultural industry, and I know that from farming for 35 years. It's research that's done the expansion of our products. It's also research that's provided the better health benefits of all of the food we have, to the point where Canadians have the best and safest food in the world.

I guess I'd like your comments on this. If we don't trade with these other nations in the world, which is, I think, the way the other question was asked, are we not limiting the opportunity, from a human rights perspective, of getting that food product into those other countries and helping them improve their societies in a health manner as well? The Trans-Pacific Partnership is about making jobs, keeping jobs, keeping people healthy, and providing them with the best food in the world, not only in Canada but in all of our neighbouring countries as well.

We know how important trade has been in other countries. We have $2 billion a day, as an example, just with the United States across our friendly border here. I know that if it weren't for trade agreements, we wouldn't have the largest hog-killing plant in Canada here in Manitoba right now.

Can you just expand on why we would want to restrict improving the lives of others in other nations?

[Jean-Marc Ruest]

I think you touch on a number of different points that are relevant from our perspective.

It's very clear that agriculture and technology go hand in hand across Canada, and that technology has allowed us to develop much more sustainable, environmentally friendly means of producing higher-yielding crops. It's had benefits for the environment, and as you mentioned, it's had benefits on our ability to feed a growing world at more reasonable prices and in a safer fashion.

On the subject of technology and intellectual property rights, the technologies that have been developed in agriculture are also subject to patent protection. Unlike Ms. Fernandez, I'm not an expert in patent protection, but I do know that the TPP, insofar as it relates to our industry, has the support of the technology developers, the exporters of the derived product, and of the users of that technology, the producers who are the ones paying for the technology. They all see the value, and are supportive of the TPP.

I think you have to look at the issue holistically.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I don't know if anyone else cares to expand on that, but I think an opportunity may come up here.

I look at the opportunities in processing, and developing new jobs, and I wonder if I could get a comment from you on that.

This is an opportunity for us, in our multicultural society, to process products here. It's not always about wages. It's about being able to have skilled labour available to process and make those products. We have that in Canada, and that's why our processing is still expanding, with new companies in canola and the other products that we've had.

I wonder if you could expand on those opportunities from a growth perspective in terms of creating jobs in western Canada and for all of Canada. It's been said by many in the industries, and by all of you, that we rely on trade. It's just been in the last 50 years that we've been able to add more value to that. These types of agreements are what have allowed it to expand.

Could you just expand on the potential of that?

[Chris Vervaet]

From the oilseed processing perspective, trade agreements are absolutely critical in terms of expanding the process in Canada and adding more value in Canada, exactly as you say. I know Canada has traditionally been hewers of wood and drawers of water, and the processors are a good example of where we're adding value back to the Canadian economy.

Your point on jobs is also very important. The jobs that are created, as a result of investments in oilseed processes, are jobs that are in both rural and inner urban communities. It's a wide range of jobs that are created as a result of investments in oilseed processing. It could be lab technicians, power engineers, traders, mechanics, or electricians. There really is a wide range of jobs that are offered through the investments made into the oilseed processing sector.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, Mr. Vervaet, and thank you, Mr. Maguire.

Now we're going to move over to the Liberals, and we have Mr. Dhaliwal. Go ahead, sir.