Evidence of meeting #13 for International Trade in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was tpp.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
But aren't they intertwined? I mean, a business has to be viable in order to keep—
1:45 p.m.
President, Manitoba Federation of Labour
Unions are the elected voice of workers and have the ability to raise their concerns and look out for their interests. Absolutely, there is a disconnect, and you will hear different voices on that.
The core of my message has repeatedly been that these trade deals are driven all too often by listening only to those who are making a profit, the owners of a business, not the workers, the consumers, or the people who work in those communities. It is just a very small percentage. If a workplace employs lots of workers, you aren't hearing all those voices.
We want those concerns to be registered. I think we have raised a number of key gaps and areas of concern that aren't part of this deal.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
That's great. The diversity of debate, of course, comes down to interpretation of some of the wording. You won't find it strange that I disagree with some of what you are saying about ISDS or some of the other features, but we will continue muddling along.
Mr. Tingey, I have been in a lot of the areas that you worked in as well. When were you there and how long were you working in that area?
1:45 p.m.
Member, The Council of Canadians
I first went out with CUSO in the late 1970s as a high school teacher, and then went back as a practising lawyer in a two-man office of Baker and McKenzie in Jakarta, in the late 1980s.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
You know, there's quite a difference in that change. I've been there as recently as two years ago, and there are huge changes happening as they struggle to become more democratic and more global and get into the supply chains.
There have been some programs that we developed through Global Affairs, as it's called now, and the Liberals have just reintroduced one. It was a $25-million program to help train Canadian businesses on going global by making sure they had the capacity, the knowledge, and the ability to embrace what was out there. These are small businesses. These are not the giant multinationals, which were already doing that on their own systems. These are small businesses of two to 20 people that look at what they can export. It's very similar to what Todd is talking about in his shop. We put forward $25 million to do that.
There's also an entity in Saskatchewan that's been around for quite some time now. I've been aware of it for 20 years. It's called STEP. It's the Saskatchewan Trade and Export Partnership. They do the same thing. They have hundreds of businesses they represent. They've been along on some of the trade missions that I've led.
There is that capacity. Of course, there's always more to be done, the same as there's always more to be done in training and trades and all those types of work. Would you not agree that trade agreements help us refocus our energies in some of those areas?
1:45 p.m.
Member, The Council of Canadians
I haven't seen that. What I've seen is what makes for a successful exporter and a successful Canadian business going abroad, and it's not trade agreements that produce success. For Todd, with all his efforts and the strength of his technology, his fax machine's not going to be ringing off the wall, if it's on the wall, the moment this deal is ratified—
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
If he's still working on the fax machine, he's doomed already.
1:45 p.m.
Member, The Council of Canadians
That's right. I'm sorry. His email account is not going to be overloaded—
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
I don't disagree with you. A Facebook page doesn't get you....
1:45 p.m.
Member, The Council of Canadians
There used to be very strong programs. I remember being out in Asia when.... What were they called, Mission Canada?
What Canadians realize when they get out there is that they have to be interested in exporting and supplying services as well as in investing, and the two things often go hand in hand. Trade agreements typically, from the Canadian side, focus on the trade side and forget what's needed to help Canadians invest abroad.
Small businesses are not being protected by ISDS. It is the big guys who are taking advantage of those things. I can't remember a single client of any stripe coming into my office over 20 years worried about whether or not the trade agreement was going to protect his investment in Malaysia or some place.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
No, it's stability and predictability of access.
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking
Thank you, gentlemen.
That's it. That wraps up our day here. I really thank all the panellists who came today and all the audience who came here today to be part of this committee meeting.
This ends our western tour. We did four provinces, and we're going to go back to Ottawa for a few weeks and then go back to Quebec and Ontario.
On that note, everybody have a good day.
MPs and staff, thank you for everything, and everybody have safe travels home today. Thank you.
The meeting is adjourned.