International Trade Committee on June 2nd, 2016

[Kyle Peterson, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Perfect.

Mr. Smillie.

[Christopher Smillie]

From a general contractor perspective or a trade contractor perspective, most of those contractors are headed to the United States. They go to Florida, to Colorado, to the Midwest, to Chicago. This doesn't help them. In fact the U.S. trade representative was proud of the fact that no immigration law was changed or amended in the TPP to protect American jobs. We've been pitching labour mobility with the United States for a number of years, sort of bait and switch, and now we might have it with countries that we weren't expecting to at all.

For the big companies, such as the KBRs, the Haliburtons, the Exxons, the Imperials, and the ones where it would make sense to have labour mobility between Canada and the U.S., this doesn't help them, because they're not doing business in some of those countries. They are doing business in Australia. However, with the entry requirements into Australia, if I might say quickly, it's not entirely clear that our guys and girls can go to Australia in the same unrestricted way we're letting them in. Australia has a different entry system. They've retained the right to exclude whomever they want, from the side letters.

So it might be nice, but we might not actually be able to get it. It's not clear.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, Mr. Peterson.

That ends our first round.

We'll go into the second round, and the Liberals have the first slot for five minutes.

Madame Lapointe, go ahead.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Good morning and welcome. I really appreciate that you are all here with us today.

My questions will be mainly for Mr. Smillie and Mr. Wayland.

My questions deal with chapter 12. You briefly talked about it earlier. Mr. Smillie, you said that there should be a screening mechanism in place before foreign workers are brought here. They are the people you are primarily representing.

Is there such a mechanism in a free trade agreement?

[Christopher Smillie]

In the NAFTA, for instance, there's no mechanism, per se. To get a NAFTA visa between Canada, the U.S., and Mexico, you take your passport, your job offer, your proof of credentials, and you go to the border, where either border patrol in the U.S. or CBSA says yes or no based on the list of trades or occupations that are listed in the agreement. If the occupation for which you have a job offer is not in that agreement, you're not in—both ways. For things like chiropractors and doctors, they have this paper-based system at the border, but there is no mechanism other than the one we have already in the temporary foreign worker program.

It doesn't exist in trade deals because we've never traded these kinds of things before with other countries in the skilled trades. It's always been an off-limits jurisdiction, so to speak. We feel that some of the access that some of the other industries have gotten around the world have been traded for access to the skilled trades here in Canada in the labour market.

There is no mechanism because we've never done it before.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

You talked about electrical workers from abroad; that's one example. You said that the skills were not the same.

We know that a great deal of caution is needed when working with electricity. How could you ensure that foreign workers have the same skills, especially in the building trades?

[Matt Wayland]

In terms of skill sets, the Canadian Welding Bureau, for instance, has testing modules across the world. As Chris mentioned, if they want to bring welders in, there are different testing booths they can do around the world. I don't know if that would be the same, but it's not just the dangers of electricity, it's also the methods and codes. For instance, I mentioned earlier the auto factory individuals who hooked up to the wrong side of the power. It was a much higher voltage that would have blown the transformer and ruined the equipment, but it also could have hurt somebody in the process. It's a bit difficult on that end as well.

Don't get me wrong; there are some very skilled electricians from other countries, for sure. I'm not doubting that whatsoever. But I think when they get here, maybe there's an aptitude test given, not only on the code but also on the practices.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

Have groups like yours been consulted during the TPP negotiations?

[Christopher Smillie]

We tried a number of times to meet with the government and the previous trade minister to talk about the TPP, but our meeting requests were always declined.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

So you are not aware of any groups like yours that have been consulted. Is that correct?

[Christopher Smillie]

No. Even groups like the Canadian Construction Association, which represents contractors, trade contractors, big companies that do construction, had no idea these things were coming in this deal, especially the access to subnational procurement. All of the infrastructure bids in your home ridings will be open to foreign bidding, and now also the potential to bring in a workforce when they come.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

If the agreement were ratified, do you think more foreign workers would come to work here or would more Canadians go to work abroad?

[Christopher Smillie]

I think on the whole, we're going to get more than we give. Our contractors generally aren't operating worldwide. they are operating in North America.

May I respond quickly about the safety question?

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

No, the time is up. Maybe you could jump in on another question so you can get your full thoughts across.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

We'll go over to the Conservatives, for five minutes.

It's good to see another member joining us. Mr. Trost, welcome to our committee.

Mr. Ritz, you're up.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you all for your presentations here today. As you can see, it's always tough to have balance in all of this.

I do take exception with some of the comments that you weren't consulted. Anyone who wanted to be consulted signed a non-disclosure agreement, and they were. Were you guys not offered the ability to sign a non-disclosure agreement? How did you miss that? It was up on websites. I talked about that with a lot of agricultural groups, and so on.

[Phil Benson]

As a matter of policy, we believe in democracy and openness and, from somebody who does have to sign secret and confidential agreements dealing with various aspects, it's pretty tough to sign a non-disclosure agreement and have to go back to Mr. Froelich and say, “I'm sorry, I can't talk about it with you.”

Compared with NAFTA, I think personally it was a mistake not leaving it open to the public. There's too many straw men out there, so the answer is no.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

There's a difference between a bilateral and multilateral, though. I'll make that point.

Mr. Smillie, you just said there's no Canadian companies working abroad. I think SNC-Lavalin and Poole would take exception to that. They do large contracts, and they will have the ability to move people to other countries who have signed onto this agreement as well.

[Christopher Smillie]

Sure, but those are construction engineering companies, not necessarily trade contractors or general contractors.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

But they bring managers, and they bring specialists, and so on.

[Christopher Smillie]

Right, but generally when they go, they don't take hands-on workers because that company is not the actual construction company. They hire sub-construction companies to actually do the work for them.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Why wouldn't that be the same case with companies coming into Canada? It's easier to hire locally than it is to move people in and house them, and all that.

[Christopher Smillie]

It could very well be, but I'm saying the opportunity will exist and we need to think carefully about whether that is something we want.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Sure. Exactly.

Mr. Wayland, I think you were saying the organization you represent is North American-wide.