Evidence of meeting #23 for International Trade in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was workers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Vice-President of Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association, Saskatchewan, Grain Growers of Canada
We face some significant challenges with Japan. This is certainly an opportunity for Canada to be a leader in this dialogue for sharing scientific studies, scientific standards, all those types of things.
NDP
Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON
I think it's tough. It's clear that a committee will be established, but there is no direction around that committee nor any type of resolution process of the non-tariff barriers that will come to that committee for discussion. There isn't a guarantee in the TPP that the non-tariff barriers will diminish, and that you will be able to have access to those markets.
It becomes tricky trying to say that you would like to have access with the tariffs, and that's fine, but the non-tariff barriers could still prevent you under the TPP because there isn't a mechanism other than the committee. We've seen in other trade agreements, unfortunately, that those committee processes haven't resulted in eliminating those non-tariff barriers.
Vice-President of Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association, Saskatchewan, Grain Growers of Canada
What it does provide is a platform for discussion, and a way to involve many nations at one table to have that dialogue and work towards that. It's something we need to do. The language in the TPP is strong in promoting a scientific basis for making decisions.
It does provide a good platform for us to work from.
NDP
Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON
What do you think the Canadian government could do to help with the non-tariff barriers?
Second Vice-President, Canadian Seed Trade Association
In the TPP, there are provisions in the LLP that would cover it off.
Identity-preserved, non-GMO soybeans are a great example in Ontario. Twenty-five per cent of the soybean acreage in eastern Canada is for non-GMO IP soybeans that get exported into many of the TPP countries. Export companies, like the great Canadian company Richardson International, export lots of soybeans. They have high anxiety around low-level presence every time a boat leaves for those areas, and this directly identifies that.
I might also add that there's incremental value added for these growers, because on non-genetically modified organisms, they get a premium of anywhere from $1 to $5, and that's great value for Canadian growers.
Fiona Cook Executive Director, Grain Growers of Canada
I want to add that one of the markets that is not in the TPP is of course China. These non-tariff barriers are a big issue with China. There's a lot of uncertainty. The TPP framework may help in future negotiations with China, which is a very large and important market.
Manager, Government Affairs and Policy, Canadian Seed Trade Association
Canada was sort of the first out the gate to develop an LLP policy for grain, so Canada's really leading the world in that respect. We are very thankful for that, and hopefully, that will be established as a basis worldwide.
Liberal
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
I'm back. I'm splitting my time with my colleague, Mr. Fonseca.
My questions are specifically for Mr. Smillie and Mr. Wayland.
You both talked about the transfer, or what are sometimes the challenges of the transfer, of credentials in Canada. What would you recommend for a freer flow of skilled tradespeople in Canada from coast to coast?
As well, could you offer us any insight into what types of trades we may have a shortage in, and may need to have further training in to prepare more Canadians to fill the jobs that your organizations so well support?
Senior Advisor, Government Relations and Public Affairs, Canada's Building Trades Unions
Internationally, Canada and the provinces need to negotiate mutual recognition agreements in the skilled trades if they wish to have some semblance of foreign credential recognition of our trades.
Within Canada, we have the Red Seal program. Mr. Wayland talked about that. Apprentices and journey people can challenge the Red Seal, and they're good to go pretty much anywhere across Canada.
Maybe I'll let Matt add anything he has.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
What if someone is not a Red Seal? Let's say they're in block B, block C, or block D. Is that recognized interprovincially?
Political Action/Media Strategist, First District, Canada, International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers
In the provincial apprenticeship system, it is not. There's an Atlantic harmonization of the trades. I think an expansion of that within Canada would increase the ability.... As various members have mentioned, they have some low pockets of unemployment where people aren't going to work. Well, if an apprentice isn't going to work, they're not getting their hours to become a journeyperson.
There are some barriers to entry to become a certified tradesperson. If they're out of work for three to six months. they need to put food on the table, so they're going to find work somewhere else. Sometimes that's outside of the trade. Being able to move within the country would definitely improve their ability to finish their hours, complete their trade, and become a Red Seal in whatever trade they're in.
Liberal
Peter Fonseca Liberal Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON
I want to ask something along the line of questioning of Mr. Trost and Mr. Peterson.
We know that the TPP is kind of far off on the horizon, but before us right now is the CETA. We're looking at ratification. Can you compare the two?
You can talk about the negotiations as well as the labour component, which is what I'd like to hear about.
How do the two compare, Mr. Benson?
Lobbyist, Teamsters Canada
We're talking about apples and oranges.
The negotiation was the same. It was in secret. We weren't involved. The side agreements probably aren't worth much, but you have to remember we're dealing with a sophisticated OECD country. We deal with the unions in Europe. We have similar regulations. We have similar safety standards, and so on.
It's just like with the United States. You could argue that down there it's a little third world in spots, but it's not the same as dealing with a lot of other countries that aren't there. We have our problems with CETA as well.
Liberal
Lobbyist, Teamsters Canada
No, it just doesn't cover it, but if you're talking about trading with people, the standards are similar.
Senior Advisor, Government Relations and Public Affairs, Canada's Building Trades Unions
CETA is largely a goods and services agreement. There's no component of labour mobility in the skilled trades in CETA. If you're looking at doing that, let's talk.
You previously asked me a question about shortages. I'm sorry, I didn't answer it.
We're going to have 200,000 retirements in the next 10 years. We're looking for young people to get involved in the skilled trades because they're all going to have shortages over the next 10 years due to economic demand and demographics, and you can't change demographics. We're looking to get more people involved. You name the trade, and there's going to be a shortage in it within a decade.
Liberal
Peter Fonseca Liberal Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON
When it comes to infrastructure, we're going to be spending well over $100 billion over the next number of years. When companies come into Canada to do some of that work, where are the profits that are made from those particular projects? Are they left in Canada, or do they go offshore?
Senior Advisor, Government Relations and Public Affairs, Canada's Building Trades Unions
If it's a foreign company that's doing a big infrastructure job, such as Union Station, for instance.... That was a partnership deal with a Canadian company, but when a foreign construction company comes and does a job in Canada, they take their money back home to where they're from.
Liberal
Peter Fonseca Liberal Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON
Would that be Carillion? Is that who was in charge of that one?
Senior Advisor, Government Relations and Public Affairs, Canada's Building Trades Unions
That's a British company, I believe. They split the deal with the Canadian Construction Association, but Carillion's portion goes back to the head office of Carillion.
This is the danger with the infrastructure spend. We're going to have $200 billion or so. How much of that is not going to stimulate the Canadian economy at all?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking
Thank you.
That wraps up your time and today's meeting.
Thank you to all the panellists for coming. It was very good dialogue back and forth. I think everybody got their points across. If you didn't get a point across and you want to send us additional information, we welcome it.
We're going to suspend for only a few minutes. Could everybody except the MPs leave the room as quickly as possible.
[Proceedings continue in camera]