International Trade Committee on June 7th, 2016

[Sujata Dey]

That's what they said about NAFTA, especially when we included Mexico, that we were going to need those protections for investors. However, most of the suits under NAFTA have been against Canada, so the kind of protection that we are getting out of it isn't necessarily worth it. When you look at NAFTA, the Americans have not lost one suit under it.

In certain cases, as well, our companies should not have been protected. For example, we at the Council of Canadians have looked at certain cases in the mining sector where people have changed their laws for environmental reasons or public safety reasons. Those kind of things are quite unacceptable, and we need to think broadly not just about investor protection, but also the other things that we're not being protected from under these agreements.

[Kyle Peterson, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you. I think my time's up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

We're going to move to the Conservatives.

Mr. Ritz, you have five minutes. Go ahead.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Just to clear the record a little bit, there has been a lot of talk about suits and so on, and certainly we have been sued, but the actual dollar value of those has been $170 million—$130 million of that was Danny Williams' nationalization of Abitibi—out of a $5.4-trillion economic driver. It's almost a cost of doing business; any lawyer will tell you that. It goes more to our legal system than it does to the trade rules. I just wanted to verify that and put that on the record.

I want to move to Mr. Nickerson. As far as I understand it from other witnesses, investments in new cutting-edge technology and pharmaceuticals lead to the creation of generics, as those drop off. We also have a situation under TPP where Canada is at eight years now in terms of biologics coverage, and the Americans are at twelve years. They'll be dropping back to eight. Don't you see that as a good movement to create the much-needed medicines that are going to be required?

[Jason Nickerson]

Judit can answer that best.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Go ahead, Judit.

[Judit Rius Sanjuan]

The TPP is a missed opportunity to promote innovation on biomedical technologies. The first letter that we sent to the Canadian government and to all TPP countries nearly four years ago asked for a TPP that would promote innovation and access for all, and really brought the agenda that's been agreed and negotiated at the World Health Organization for all members states for many years for a better innovation system.

The TPP instead has created an international standard that will affect Canada as well as all the other TPP countries and beyond, because, as you know, it's an agreement that is designed to extend beyond the current 12 countries. Its aim is basically to promote and duplicate the U.S. health system and the U.S. intellectual property system abroad.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

They're dropping from 12 to eight.

[Judit Rius Sanjuan]

Specifically on the provision on data inclusivity, the initial demand was for 12 years, and the text is much better than the initial demand. I completely agree with the member of Congress who made that remark. Currently five to eight years is better than 12 years, but if you look at the evidence, including, for example, from the U.S. Federal Trade Commission that analyzed the initial proposal of 12 years that was created under U.S. law and was part of the Affordable Care Act—

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to move on if I could.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Yes.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you for that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

You have to answer to a delay. You have to give it a second.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

I get that. I also understand that India is the largest generic manufacturer of AIDS medicines and so on. They're not involved in the TPP, so there should be no change to the availability there.

I do want to move to Mr. Ross for a moment and ask about China, a new and emerging market that's not involved in the TPP. Do you see our moving forward with an agreement with China, but having more strength in doing that if we sign TPP and have the other 11 countries in our hip pocket as we start to negotiate with China? Would that be a better case scenario?

[John Ross]

Let me step back. China is an extraordinary market for us with tremendous potential. The Chinese pork market, as we speak today, is supporting global markets as it deals with restrictions in Russia and the like. The degree to which we can either encourage the Chinese to join TPP and come on board, or as a TPP member when we approach them, it is to our advantage. We look forward to better opportunities in China and to a little more secure access there, as we go forward, because of the markets that are outside the TPP, that's the big one for us.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

And we've had some early discussions with the ASEAN group of countries that China is working to push back on TPP, where there are tremendous market opportunities as well.

[John Ross]

There is, and we specifically look to Vietnam as an opportunity for tremendous growth in the short run.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Great. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

You still have a minute or a half a minute. You're all good?

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

I'll take it.

I'm just kidding.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

We have time enough for two more slots for the MPs, and these are going to be about three and a half minutes each, because Mr. Ritz gave up his minutes.

Go ahead, Mr. Fonseca, for three and a half minutes. Then we'll go to Ms. Ramsey.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Mr. Cunningham, were all of your concerns addressed by the carve outs in chapter 29?

[Rob Cunningham]

I think it's an important provision, and along with the other health exceptions that could also be used, and the fact that plain packaging is not an expropriation, we're satisfied that plain packaging is fully consistent with the TPP by implementing it in Canada.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

To Mr. Nickerson, I don't know if you have this information, but what percentage of your costs would be attributed to brand drugs, or IP protected products or services? Have you looked at that?

[Jason Nickerson]

We do have an analysis of that, I believe. I don't have the data immediately in front of me. I'd rather not venture a guess, but I can provide that to you.