Evidence of meeting #28 for International Trade in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fowl.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:05 a.m.
Chief Agriculture Negotiator, Trade Agreements and Negotiations, Market and Industry Services Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
No. We are working as diligently as possible to find a practical...and the industry is fully involved and aware of the challenges in that regard.
August 3rd, 2016 / 11:05 a.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
Chair, I was asking some direct questions regarding the ministers', so I definitely do want them to come forward. Therefore, I have a motion I want to read into the record right now, and we can deal with it later, if you so choose. It reads:
That as part of the committee's study of the Canadian Border Services Agency's Duty Deferral Program as well as issues pertaining to the importance of diafiltered milk and spent fowl into Canada; that this study consist of two further meetings; the first meeting to hear from industry stakeholders; and second meetings to hear from the Ministers of Public Safety, Finance, Agriculture, and International Trade; that these meetings be scheduled no later than August 31, 2016; and that the Committee report its findings to the House.
This is an issue that has been going on for a period of time. Consultations seem to be going on and on. Consultations are being used to defer making a decision. They need to show action on this, and I need to know where the ministers are at on this. I want to know whether this an issue where Agriculture is making recommendations to Finance, and Finance won't budge, or Border Services doesn't have the tools to do the job. We need to know exactly what's going on here.
I'm sorry, but they're not willing to answer because of this confidentiality between them and the ministers, so let's bring the ministers—
11:05 a.m.
Conservative
11:05 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking
I don't know. I think that's within your five minutes.
Actually, it's not. Okay, go ahead. Sorry for that, Mr. Hoback.
11:05 a.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
I think I've said my words, but you can see the frustration. Put yourself in the farmers' shoes. Again, you're in a highly regulated sector and you're relying on the government to enforce those rules. When they're letting you down and it's costing you money and your wallet is getting thinner and thinner—and as Ms. Brosseau said, she has an example of a constituent going out of business—I'm sorry, but we can't wait for new types of ideas. We have to have some action now.
I know there have been ideas in the past that have been brought forward that may need to be further examined. I'd like to see if they've actually examined those. I'd also like to see what the ministers have said to their bureaucrats in dealing with this issue, because I believe it's nothing. Even though they get the questions in the House from Ms. Brosseau and from the Conservatives, they do nothing, and that's not acceptable in this day and age.
11:05 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking
We're getting into debate on the motion. I think right now it's time to move to the NDP, which has three minutes.
So go ahead, Madame Brosseau.
11:05 a.m.
NDP
Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Thank you.
It's nice seeing you back. We were on the agriculture committee for so long—with Randy as well. We also had Mr. Ritz come to the committee quite often.
11:05 a.m.
Liberal
11:05 a.m.
NDP
Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
We did talk a lot about it, and you asked some great questions on spent fowl and diafiltered milk, but here we are once again with this issue. It has been going on for quite a few years, but I think everybody around the table recognizes that this has to move fast and that we need timelines. We need to be able to tell our constituents that there is light at the end of the tunnel, that this will be resolved in September, or October, or at least have a better idea of how it's going to be resolved.
I know we've talked about DNA testing, and Trent University has done work on the spent fowl. How long would it take for this to be approved? I guess industry submitted this to you as the best solution to end the problem with spent fowl. How long will it take to have this approved? What kinds of verifications need to be made to ensure that this type of DNA testing for spent fowl is adequate? I know we do DNA testing all the time. We do DNA testing for kids, and we do it for cows. We do it for a ton of stuff. How hard would it be to approve DNA testing for chicken?
If we do decide to go forward with this, are we afraid of retaliation from the States?
Mr. Loynachan.
11:10 a.m.
Director, Trade Policy, Canada Border Services Agency
To your question around timing, I can tell you that the timeline does not only involve establishing or confirming the science before we would DNA test relating to classification. It's also about the process. Earlier I talked about what the roles and responsibilities would be if in fact the government were to conduct a pilot. I mentioned that there are obstacles. One of the key objectives of the Canada Border Services Agency is to ensure that the borders are fluid, that there is not congestion, knowing that testing at the border could in fact have negative impacts. A big concern, and an industry concern, clearly is contamination. As you might appreciate, there are large shipments of chicken. We would have to open multiple packages or bags, and that could contaminate large quantities of chicken. We're looking at how we could do it governmentally. Would it be done inland, in conjunction with work that another government department may be doing? In terms of a timeline, we're looking at that for the fall.
11:10 a.m.
NDP
Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
What about the USDA's voluntary certification? Would that work? Would that help prevent...?
11:10 a.m.
Director, Trade Policy, Canada Border Services Agency
I'll turn to my colleagues at Agriculture, who are responsible for work with the USDA, the U.S. Department of Agriculture, and their certification process.
11:10 a.m.
NDP
Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Would that be a solution? Is that something chicken farmers have looked at also?
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
11:10 a.m.
Chief Agriculture Negotiator, Trade Agreements and Negotiations, Market and Industry Services Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
Thank you.
The short answer is yes, we're in discussions with the USDA to see how their fowl voluntary certification program can be used in that regard. It could address a significant portion of the issue. That would be our hope.
I should say also that the imports of spent fowl went down in the past quarter. We think that it has something to do with the enhanced enforcement activities by CBSA. We have a number of measures—the DNA testing, the certification—that can help, but already what CBSA is doing, in terms of enhanced enforcement, is probably playing a role in the reduction of imports that we see.
11:10 a.m.
NDP
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking
I know, but we're going to our last MP, our last committee member.
Mr. Peterson, you have the wrap-up. Go ahead, sir.
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
Kyle Peterson Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Thank you for that, Mr. Chair.
I want to just thank everyone for being here. I know it was on very short notice. I want to commend you for the great work you've done and your great presentations today to shed some light on the situation for the committee here. I think it's been very helpful. Certainly from my standpoint, I can attest to that.
I will follow up on Ms. Brosseau's question.
You were about to elaborate, I think, Mr. Loynachan, on, first of all, how the new enforcement mechanisms have been successful in the last quarter in limiting these imports. Can you elaborate on those? I think you were about to do that when you ran out of time.
11:10 a.m.
Director, Trade Policy, Canada Border Services Agency
Maybe I'll just open by saying that CBSA is certainly the face of the border and any actions taken, in terms of proper classification or compliance, certainly are recognized by industry. In terms of these two commodities, spent fowl and diafiltered milk, the number of importers is relatively small. Therefore, if the CBSA is conducting post-importation verification measures or doing any sampling at the border, as is being done with diafiltered milk, the word spreads quickly. The CBSA's compliance measures act as a deterrent and are, from the numbers, certainly have results. They have a positive impact on the issue, and the CBSA takes that role very seriously. As I pointed out, there are challenges, but in whatever capacity or measure that we have before us, we're certainly committed to moving that forward.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Kyle Peterson Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Okay, I appreciate that.
What did the expanded enforcement procedure that's being implemented result from? Obviously, someone from the CBSA didn't just wake up one morning and decide to do it. I want to know if there was some ministerial directive or departmental directive, which would probably show that the ministers and the ministry are doing work in this regard.
11:15 a.m.
Director, Trade Policy, Canada Border Services Agency
As was pointed out numerous times, we, through working groups, work with industry. We were probably the first government officials to be engaged, through the Border Measures Working Group, by the respective sectors regarding these particular issues. Those concerns, and the work that agencies or departments could work on, commenced years ago, as was pointed out. But certainly industry drives much of this governmental response.