Is it highly-skilled and not general labour?
Evidence of meeting #32 for International Trade in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was brunswick.
Evidence of meeting #32 for International Trade in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was brunswick.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
11:50 a.m.
Unifor
There are many different sections within it. There are four different ways they could be brought into the country. Some of them require more standards and more education, but some of them are vague. They say things like “specialist”, but it doesn't go on to define what that means, or what kind of specialties they have. Is it something that could easily be trained here? They're not things that are specific within that. Once again, it's a vague thing, so that they could easily bring people in.
In regard to the report on the temporary foreign workers, it was released, I think it was last week, and there are some issues that are being brought forth. It still doesn't address the issues when it comes to the abuse of these temporary foreign workers and things like that, because it doesn't talk about.... The pathways to permanent residency aren't set in stone. They're not for the lower-income groups, and there's still quite a bit of work in that industry.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
There is a fair bit of work being done right now on the path to citizenship. In particular, in a riding like mine, which is New Brunswick Southwest, we do have a number of temporary foreign workers who do need to have a path to citizenship because they contribute highly to the local population.
I am pleased to say there is work being done on an easier path to citizenship. I'm optimistic that through the Atlantic growth strategy program and initiatives it will make that easier and the best for our local communities.
Mr. Johnston, regarding Cavendish Farms, how many employees do you have within Canada?
11:50 a.m.
Director, Quality Assurance, Cavendish Farms
Within Canada, we have approximately 1,100 direct employees.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
Then is it fair to say that, as a result of international trade, your employment needs have changed from the early years with your 25 trucks going to 700-some now, and also with more specialized positions?
11:50 a.m.
Director, Quality Assurance, Cavendish Farms
Yes. Mr. Chair, international trade is not only the backbone of why we are where we are today, but it's also what we're going to be looking for in the future for Cavendish Farms and to continue to employ Canadians.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
For labour itself, over the last 25 years, how significantly have you relied on the foreign labour for the diversity of language, the knowledge of the foreign markets, and the experience of entering and sustaining your company in those markets, such as Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Peru, and Chile?
11:55 a.m.
Director, Quality Assurance, Cavendish Farms
I don't have a number, but I will say that an increasing number of our employees are—if you'll excuse the term—come from aways.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
11:55 a.m.
Director, Quality Assurance, Cavendish Farms
Oh, I'm sorry. They're not directly from Prince Edward Island. They are from outside of Prince Edward Island, and outside of Canada. Our business relies on foreign workers coming to Canada to continue working for us and to allow us to continue operating efficiently and effectively.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
How significant is it that Canadian employees—let's say from Cavendish Farms—are also going into those markets as an exchange. Do some of your employees ever work abroad, representing Cavendish Farms in the foreign markets, as well, so there is an exchange between....
11:55 a.m.
Director, Quality Assurance, Cavendish Farms
We certainly do. We have employees in foreign countries, for sure, yes.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking
Thank you.
We're going to move to the NDP. Ms. Ramsey, you have five minutes.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON
Thank you so much for your presentations today.
I have a couple of things. Mr. Sprague, you mentioned aboriginal treaty rights. Unfortunately, aboriginal people were not consulted at all on the Trans-Pacific Partnership. We've had them here before this committee. In the actual document itself, there's no reflection of the rights they are owed here in Canada.
There's no jurisprudence, no case law that applies in the investor-state dispute settlement resolution processes. Even if we had those in Canada, they would not apply, unfortunately.
The question I have for you is around the standstill. I think it is important for folks to understand that, in the standstill clause itself, think about pharmacare. If we enter into the TPP today, and then down the road we decide we'd like to implement pharmacare in Canada, we could be sued for doing that, because we will not be able to create new public programs for the benefit of Canadians. I wonder if you could speak to the impact of the standstill clause on public sector workers.
11:55 a.m.
Legal Counsel and Chief Negotiator, New Brunswick Union of Public and Private Employees
Yes. That's just it. If Canada Post didn't exist today, we wouldn't be allowed to create it tomorrow if we entered into the TPP.
I think the concern is twofold. One is about unanticipated services that I mentioned, things that don't exist today that might exist in the future. Two, I think there's a concern around the one-way nature of decisions around privatization. If the government decided to sell a public utility to a company from one of the TPP countries, the next government wouldn't be able to reverse that decision. That's an example of the undemocratic nature of some of the potential outcomes that's very concerning.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
11:55 a.m.
Legal Counsel and Chief Negotiator, New Brunswick Union of Public and Private Employees
Of course.
11:55 a.m.
Tracey Ramsay
Ms. Smith, I think the strategy that MP Ludwig is speaking about is important. It's important that we try to create a way for the temporary foreign worker program to be improved in Canada. Unfortunately, in the TPP, all the rules will be removed. As flawed as this program currently is, anything we're trying to do to improve it will simply be removed with the stroke of a pen in signing the Trans-Pacific Partnership. The problems we currently have with the temporary foreign worker program will only be exacerbated because this framework doesn't exist.
I wonder if you can speak a little about how that will impact workers here in New Brunswick, who are looking for work under that program or who currently work in sectors that are affected by the program.
11:55 a.m.
Unifor
How the TPP is going to affect them is if they're trying to extend their work permits and switch to another employer or something like that. As I said, it makes them more beholden to that employer. As well, it makes it harder for them to get more employment if they have people bringing in more workers. Once they've been in Canada for some time, their standards start to match the Canadian norm as far as labour goes. They start saying they deserve to be treated this way; they deserve these things. It's going to be harder for them to get employment with those corporations because they'll be bringing in more people who aren't at that level yet.
I speak on this because I see it happen all the time in long-term care. We don't have that percentage within health care because there's a need for health care workers, so we have a large percentage of temporary foreign workers.
I see it every day. When they first come into our country, they're very timid, very afraid. When they've been here longer, once their permanent residency comes into play—if they managed to get it through the provincial nominee program, or if they married a Canadian, or however they ended up getting their permanent residency—they become more involved in things; they become more outspoken. It does very drastically affect the way workers work and how they live their lives.
Noon
NDP
Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON
I think we've heard today, too, that with the high unemployment rate here in New Brunswick, at 40,000, at least through the temporary foreign worker program there's an ability to prove that need locally. If that need doesn't exist, then I can only imagine that more folks will be coming in, which will be an even greater challenge to those in New Brunswick who are looking for work, who either are already unemployed or are then affected by this shift that will happen under the labour mobility chapter.
It's interesting. You mentioned, of course, that the U.S. opted out of this chapter. They said that no one will dictate their immigration standards in their country. I really wish that had been the same for us here in Canada.
Noon
A voice
For sure.
Noon
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking
Thank you. That wraps up your time.
We'll go to the Liberals. Madam Lapointe, you have five minutes.
Noon
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank the witnesses for joining us this morning. I appreciate hearing all your points of view.
Ms. Smith, you talked about chapter 12 and foreign workers earlier. You are more concerned about the arrival of temporary workers from Japan and Australia. Why is that?