International Trade Committee on Sept. 26th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

You only have a couple of minutes, so it will have to be brief.

[Paula Tippett, Saint John Chapter, Council of Canadians]

When I saw on the schedule that we were to be on a panel with Connors Brothers, I got a sudden craving for Brunswick sardines, so I had to go to the kitchen and eat some.

We are very fortunate in Saint John, New Brunswick, to have ready access to safe, local, nutritious, and affordable food. Will safe local food be as readily available to us after CETA and the TPP? I don't think so. What about maritime turkeys or local chicken? Turkey farmers have said that reducing tariffs and increasing imports under the TPP will put them out of business, and I believe them. Locally produced sardines, turkey, chicken, eggs, cheese, and milk are excellent, safe, and affordable protein sources for the people of Saint John to buy to feed their families. We need to protect all of them from CETA and the TPP.

For over a century, Saint John has had an excellent system for protecting the public's health. The city market managers always had the authority to ensure the food sold in the market was wholesome. When the Saint John Board of Health was established, and then the provincial health department, we had health inspectors to ensure our food workers were trained in food safety and that our food was safe to eat.

When I was health officer for the four counties from St. Stephen to Sussex, the public health system worked well. One weekend evening, I got a call at home from the head of the emergency department at the regional hospital. A number of people had arrived ill. Samples had been taken from a woman who was vomiting. They had all had takeout food from the same restaurant. I called the health inspector for the area. He went to the restaurant, located the contaminated food, took samples, and threw the rest of the contaminated food in the garbage, stopping the outbreak. The restaurant owner was informed of the food safety rules he had broken, which had resulted in the outbreak of illness.

We take safe food for granted, but we shouldn't. With NAFTA and the harmonization of our food standards with some other places, there has been a deterioration in food safety in Canada. Federal inspectors and inspection services have been reduced. Food processing can take place far away from where it's eaten. Meats are especially dangerous.

In 2008, 22 people died from eating sliced meat from Toronto, which was contaminated with listeria bacteria from meat slicers that were not properly cleaned. The listeria outbreak lasted from June to October, five months. Compare this to the few hours it took to end the outbreak in Saint John. Many people across Canada became ill in 2012 from E. coli bacteria in beef from out west that was processed in a plant with poor hygiene practices. An inspection at this plant in 2014 showed no running water in the sinks of the men's and women's washrooms, no paper towels, and other problems. This plant was said to have processed 40% of the beef in Canada exported to the U.S.

Since NAFTA, American-origin lettuce, other fruits and vegetables, and even nuts have been contaminated with disease-causing bacteria. In May of this year, CBC announced a massive recall of frozen fruits and vegetables produced in the U.S. from 2014 on, in regard to a listeriosis outbreak that began in 2013, causing illness in many people and some deaths.

Am I to slow down?

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

No, you're way over time. You're three minutes over time. I'm trying to be polite and trying to get you to get right to your point so we can have a dialogue with all the MPs.

[Paula Tippett]

I'm sorry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Are you finished?

[Paula Tippett]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you very much.

We're going to move on to the Grand Manan Fishermen's Association.

[Bonnie Morse, Program Co-ordinator, Grand Manan Fishermen's Association]

Good morning, and thank you for the opportunity to address the committee today.

The Grand Manan Fishermen's Association represents inshore commercial fisherman on Grand Manan Island. Grand Manan is located in the mouth of the Bay of Fundy and is about a one and a half hour ferry ride to mainland New Brunswick. Our population has been steady, at around 2,500 for the past 200 years. While aquaculture and tourism contribute to the economy of the island, it is most dependent on the health and prosperity of the fishery.

Members of our organization are owner-operators. They own their own boats and licences and fish them themselves. They are small business owners who generally employ at least two other people besides the captain, and there are about 100 of them on our island. The fact that fishermen operate small businesses and offer good employment opportunities in rural coastal communities is often lost in the discussion about the fisheries.

Our fishermen fish lobster, scallops, groundfish, and herring. Lobsters were our primary species, with a landed value of close to $80 million on Grand Manan in 2014-15, the last year that statistics were available. New Brunswick's GDP grew last year based on the growth from resource industries, including fisheries. Despite the way the fishery is sometimes depicted, we are a growing, healthy industry.

Traditionally our lobster market has been primarily the United States, with much of the catch moving through the Boston market. The economic downturn in 2008 combined with increased lobster catch throughout the Maritimes changed that. While the U.S. is still a primary market, more markets have opened up in Europe, and more recently an emerging Asia market, which has allowed the industry to diversify its dependence on any one economy.

As such, we are very interested in trade and in securing market access for our products, particularly in Asia. The Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement is of keen interest to us. However, we note that China is not part of it and have concerns about what that may mean.

We, with many other inshore fishermen's groups across the country, are members of a national organization, the Canadian Independent Fish Harvesters' Federation. This federation represents the independent fleet sector of the Canadian fishing industry and wants to participate in the discussion about our trade policy. We want to be able to do so from an informed perspective.

It has been frustrating that there has been very little information forthcoming about the portions of the TPP that could and will impact fisheries. We are requesting that there be a briefing provided to the federation specific to the fisheries issues.

[Melanie Sonnenberg, Project Manager, Grand Manan Fishermen's Association]

We know that trade agreements are not just about the trading of products; they're also about rules, particularly about rules that give rights to corporations that can override national legislation. This is of great concern to us, because Canada's approach to fisheries is based on the owner-operator concept. Rules like owner-operator and fleet separation were put in place to make sure that fishing communities benefit first and foremost from the adjacent fisheries resources. They are critical for rural development and sustainability in Atlantic Canada. They rest on the notion that Canada's fisheries resources are a common property resource to be managed by the federal government in the public interest and for the benefit of Canadians.

Our concern about the TPP is that certain key countries behind the deal, like New Zealand and Chile, both fishing nations, over the last several decades have taken a very different approach to their fisheries resources. They have in essence privatized access to fisheries quota. The situation is quite alarming in New Zealand. Fish quota is now harvested by foreign industrial vessels, South Korean for the most part, using indentured crews from very low-wage countries like Indonesia, the Philippines, and Vietnam.

The working conditions aboard these vessels have been described as slave-like by Bloomberg business report. This was confirmed by New Zealand department of labour investigations after repeated cases of crews jumping ship to flee the abuse they were subjected to. This kind of arrangement, having a country's fisheries resources harvested by foreign industrial boats using slaves, is no doubt good for the bottom line of companies that control or own the quotas, but we don't see how it could be good for fishermen or fishing communities.

News last week that similar practices were taking place in Hawaii only emphasize the need to maintain and enhance Canada's approach to fisheries management.

Let's be clear here: fishermen understand the market. We deal in it every day. We know the market doesn't care about our fishing communities or their future. Our concerns are that the big fishing companies of the Pacific countries involved in the TPP, including our own, will use the negotiations—which we understand were conducted in secret and which Canada had to sign on to before even seeing them to be allowed into the deal—to get access to Canada's fisheries resource at our expense.

That critical policy like owner-operator and fleet separation, and the notion that Canada's fisheries resources are a common property resource, will be sacrificed so that other sectors of the economy, pork producers perhaps, can get access to TPP markets. We want to participate in the shaping of our international trade policy, and we want to do it on an informed basis. What we don't want is to have our interests and the long-term interest of our communities and future generations traded away by people who do not value the importance of coastal rural communities.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you. You're right on time.

Apparently, you have a very vibrant fishing industry up there. It's a beautiful island and I'd recommend to any Canadians or travellers to go to your island. It's a wonderful stay and hospitality. It's great to see you here this morning.

That wraps up our briefings. We're going to move on to dialogue with the MPs.

We're going to start off with the Conservatives for five minutes.

Mr. Van Kesteren, you have the floor.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you all for being here. We're having a wonderful visit here. We're learning lots about your industries and your people.

I'll start with you, Mr. Lomas. I'm somewhat confused. Is yours a multinational company?

[David Lomas]

We have a Canadian legal entity, Connors Bros. Clover Leaf Seafoods Company, and we are in turn owned by Lion Capital, which is a U.K.-based private equity firm. We're affiliated with Bumble Bee Seafoods. I'm just talking strictly about the legal structure. Functionally our president and CEO is based in San Diego, California. The president of Connors Bros. Clover Leaf Seafoods Company is based in Markham, Ontario. He was formerly living here.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Do you fish globally? Do you have a presence in different areas?

[David Lomas]

We're primarily a processor and marketer and seller of canned seafood products.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Does that product come from different locales?

[David Lomas]

I'm here today to speak more with a focus on our operation here in New Brunswick.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

I'm confused, because on the one hand, the local fishing population, those who are involved with the locals in places like Grand Manan, are concerned about your types of operations. Yet you're concerned that trade deals won't benefit you. I'm just looking to square that.

[David Lomas]

Let me clarify one point. Connors Bros. is one of Canada's oldest food companies. We've operated a sardine cannery in Blacks Harbour, New Brunswick, 45 minutes south of here, since the mid-1880s. The history of our company is one of consolidation. In 2004, Connors Bros. basically entered into a merger with Bumble Bee Seafoods.

However, here today we employ 600 people in the Blacks Harbour area, and we process herring into canned sardines—

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

I get that. I'm sorry to cut you off but I have only five minutes. I really want to get to the bottom of this.

You're talking about fish quotas for herring and the fact that you're allowed only so much, and yet the other parties are worried that these quotas will not be respected and we'll see overfishing. I know that you don't fish but you get that fish from different sources. Quite frankly, I was a little bit surprised to hear that. I'm concerned about those things. I'm concerned about overfishing and the world fish population and having good rules. I always understood that those rules were being applied generally and increasingly applied and that we were improving the situation. You seem to indicate that when you say you don't get the quota that you need in order to move it across, and yet your group is saying that we're moving in the opposite direction.

[David Lomas]

You're touching on a lot of different points that I don't think five minutes can do justice to. First of all, just to clarify again, Connors Bros. does harvest. We have a seiner. But we also buy from many of the local fishers here including weir fisheries in addition to seiners. The point I'm trying to make is that right now, we've seen a situation in which the total allowable catch, the TAC, in the Bay of Fundy Area has now declined to around, I think 50,000, tonnes.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Is that because the quota has decreased?

[David Lomas]

The quota has decreased. We actively support and our livelihood is tied up with sustainable resources.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

We have to do that, yes.

[David Lomas]

We have to do what's necessary.

The point I'm trying to make is that we also run a processing plant. Through our branded products, we have a market outlet potential that is far in excess of what we are able to process from locally available fish, and that includes fish that is harvested in the United States and imported into Canada by us.

The point I was trying to make in this context was about the regulatory framework under which we are currently operating. Our main concern is that there be a level playing field between us and competing processors and providers of product in the global markets, and that includes Peru and Vietnam. There are other places outside of the TPP that we directly compete against, for example, Morocco and Thailand. There are a number of them; it's very much a global business.

As things stand right now, we're looking for finished goods just to meet our branded-product outlet requirements.

With respect to the Bay of Fundy, we're deeply tied in with what goes on within the fishery and with our partners in this resource, and their concerns are our concerns in the context of that relationship.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, sir. We're quite a bit over time, but that's fine. You had some good information there, so I let it go.

We're going to move to MP Ludwig, who is hosting us here in this wonderful province. It's great to be here.

You have the floor for five minutes.