International Trade Committee on Sept. 26th, 2016

[Joel Gionet]

Russia exports its crab to Japan and some to China. Over the last few years, Russia's stock has been in constant decline, since illegal fishing accounts for nearly all the crab. I could not tell you what Russia's future is in this market. In my opinion, that country's stocks will crumble over the next few years, similar to what happened in Japan a few years ago.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

I have a quick question, and then I'm going to go on to Mr. Guance.

Mr. Gionet, do you have any issues with labour, in terms of attracting new labour to work on crab catches?

[Joel Gionet]

No, not at all.

It's true that it is sometimes difficult to recruit workers for fishing boats and plants because the fishing season is pretty short, lasting only 10 to 12 weeks. Companies need a lot of labour over a short period of time. Of course, the workforce recruitment issue is recurring, but our main challenge is successfully putting our crab on new markets. Our sales in the United States and Japan are currently stagnant. Buyers come to us. It would help if we were able to develop other markets and go look at the markets in other countries, as the snow crab we fish in the Atlantic is a luxury product. It's a very nice product. I even think that it's the most wonderful product in the world. In that sense, it would be worth our while to explore other countries' markets.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you.

Before we go to the NDP, I have one quick question for Mr. Quinn.

Does your port have the capacity for these post-Panamax boats, as far as the depth of the water and being able to park them are concerned?

[Jim Quinn]

Yes, in fact the modernization is going to greatly enhance that. For example, we're going from a depth alongside at low water—and I emphasize low water because as you probably know, we have an eight and a half metre tide twice a day here—of 12.2 metres, and that will be going to 15.2 metres to accommodate those much larger vessels that will become more and more commonplace in this particular trading corridor.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you.

We're going to go to the NDP now. Ms. Ramsey, you have five minutes.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Thank you to our guests today. I would like to speak to Mr. Gaunce first.

You were wondering about growth. You were asking what could potentially be the growth for all Canadians. We now have an economic impact study that's been released by the government, and it shows 0.127% over 24 years. Ironically, the amount that they quantify that is $4.3 billion, which is the exact same amount that's offered to dairy in supply management compensation over the first 15 years. If that money is to come, which I hope it does, we'll actually be in the negative by the end of the 24 years that they're projecting here. So the net benefit doesn't exist for Canada, according to our own government, when we look at the forecast.

You spoke about it wiping out half of New Brunswick's dairy.

[Paul Gaunce]

Half the Atlantic's.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Half the Atlantic's. Oh my, that's such a strong statement.

I just want to ask you, what would be the impact on communities here in the Atlantic to have that great a loss?

[Paul Gaunce]

In New Brunswick, we run first and second, depending on how good a year potatoes have. New Brunswick dairy farmers put about $110 million into the GDP in New Brunswick. Jobs I couldn't tell you, but the spinoff in farm equipment dealers, farm supplies, and veterinarians is just huge.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

I come from a rural riding.

[Paul Gaunce]

We have three large processors in this province.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

That would be devastating, I can imagine.

[Paul Gaunce]

In Sussex we're still stinging from the closure of the potash mine back in the spring. There were 400 jobs lost there in one fell swoop. So, yes, we certainly wouldn't want to see the dairy industry go.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

No, I wouldn't either. I come from a rural riding, so I can appreciate the spinoff in, essentially, the communities that are supported by agriculture and farmers. Thank you for that.

Mr. Gionet, I think that the Canadian snow crab is the best in the world. I love snow crab.

I would like to ask you a question about non-tariff barriers.

The question that I want to ask you is, are tariffs the only barrier, the 4% that exists in New Brunswick for the crab exports, or are there non-tariff barriers that exist as well?

[Joel Gionet]

I think there are some non-tariff barriers because certain countries would prefer to receive our crab alive. I think that is starting to be the case. Currently, some fishing industries are trying to send live snow crab in very small quantities to Asian countries. It works, but it requires a lot of work and a lot of equipment.

To answer your question, I would say that tariff barriers are not the only issue. There are other problems, but some of them cannot be resolved. I think that we are on the right path when it comes to being able to transport live snow crab to Asia and around the world.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Do we have enough, do you think, with crab producers in New Brunswick to meet that capacity? Is there enough live crab that you'll be able to meet the capacity of the markets in the TPP?

[Joel Gionet]

I should point out that snow crab is managed annually. Every year, the stock is assessed and capture rates are established. We have been fishing snow crab in the southern Gulf of St. Lawrence since the mid-1960s. We have experienced both highs and lows in that time period.

Today, in 2016, the stock is in excellent health, like never before, as we are only fishing adult male crabs. Females and the young never come to the surface. No other fishing activities take place in the crab fishing areas. We fish crab using conical traps that are placed on the sea floor. That is an extremely environmentally friendly process. The species is in good health, but it definitely has a limit. On average, over the past 20 years, the limit may have been about 25,000 metric tons per year.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Quinn, you spoke about jobs, which I think are very important, not just in New Brunswick but across Canada. The only assessment that we have to go on is a study that's been done out of Tufts University that shows we would lose 60,000 jobs in Canada by signing the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

I'm wondering if you could speak specifically to how many jobs you feel would be gained in the Saint John's port through the signing of the TPP.

[Jim Quinn]

In Saint John, in our port, it's a business increase. I think there are studies which show that for every 1,000 increase in the number of containers in a port, it equates to about one full-time job directly at the port, but I think the real answer is more tied to the increase in traffic in and out of the port. The port's a transition point, and there are those jobs that support the movement of cargoes in and out. We aim to be a port that is not experiencing congestion and to get things to the consumer shelf a lot more quickly than through other ports, which is why we feel we're in a very competitive position when it comes to the movement of cargoes in and out of this part of North America, not just Canada.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

We have a beautiful port, that's for sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, Ms. Ramsey.

We're going to move to the Liberals with Mr. Dhaliwal, for five minutes.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you to the panel members.

I come from a town where the port is key to the businesses in moving economic goods.

Mr. Quinn, you mentioned that the TPP will streamline the customs procedures. By doing so, how quickly will the goods move? Other than streamlining customs, what are the other procedures or mechanisms that will come into play that will increase the efficiency of the shipping terminals?

[Jim Quinn]

There are a couple of things.

One is that in reviewing the TPP and the elements that affect marine mode, customs is one that crosses modes of transportation. There's discussion about streamlining the processes and procedures, which is a good thing the more we get the rules right and get them streamlined.

We have a very good initiative now between Canada and the United States called beyond the border, which offers some advantageous streamlining of inspections. For example, when a cargo that's in a container on a rail is inspected in Canada, that inspection could involve Homeland Security. It would then allow that traffic to proceed across the border without having to stop and have different cars pulled for further inspection or whatnot. Those are the types of things that are really good steps forward, and we need to go, I would humbly suggest, further and faster on that.

I think the theme that's embodied in the TPP only encourages that type of activity to continue to be strengthened and help our trade flow. I think that's the point I was trying to make.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

In my previous terms as a member of Parliament, there were two major issues we were facing at the Vancouver port. One was the diversity in employment, particularly when it comes to women, because of the lashing task, or whatever they call it. The second thing was the trucking industry. There have always been worries that there will be a strike, and then the competition will go to Seattle.

Do you see any of those issues locally, as well? By increasing that job base by ratifying the TPP, how would you make sure that it provides equal opportunity for women?