Evidence of meeting #68 for International Trade in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nafta.
A video is available from Parliament.
Vice-President, Pipeline Regulation and General Counsel, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
There are a couple of places but initially it was North Dakota.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON
They can bring that all the way to the east coast. Is that because of our lack of pipelines? I'm curious. What about the Hibernia oil fields? Is it not cheaper to bring it in by ship to Montreal, places like that?
Vice-President, Pipeline Regulation and General Counsel, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
The production from Hibernia was already in the marketplace, so this U.S. oil that has been coming into the market in recent years is displacing the offshore production that was in the marketplace. It can come by rail. Some of it could come by marine movement from the U.S. Gulf Coast, which would involve it getting to the Gulf Coast by rail, barge, pipeline, or some combination of those three, depending on where the oil fields are located.
Conservative
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Randy Hoback
Thank you, Mr. Van Kesteren.
Ms. Ludwig, you have the floor for approximately two minutes.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
There is no trade-off between border security and efficiency. How can we better use technology to efficiently pre-clear our cargo and our citizens? Some of the examples that were offered today were alignment and elimination of red tape. Some of the other committee witnesses have talked about harmonization, e-manifests for freight forwarders, border wait times applications or an app, electronic data interchange.
Can you offer some suggestions about how we can better use technology, considering that there was no Internet when NAFTA was first drafted?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Council of the Great Lakes Region
The multimodal pre-clearance agreement that was initiated and signed under Prime Minister Harper and President Obama, and I think moved into law more recently, shows great promise in terms of opening up the border from a technology standpoint, particularly on the movement of people but also goods. Cargo is going to be the second step that comes. It's going to be people first and then cargo, which provides not only the legal framework for allowing that to take hold, but I think it provides great promise from a technology standpoint, in terms of single window and what have you. When you combine those things together, that's where you can really see some acceleration in terms of the movement of goods and people across the border.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
Just on that, how would we connect Mexico with that?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Council of the Great Lakes Region
That's always a million-dollar question. When I get back to the two-speed economy, we always seem to be in a different place in our conversations with the U.S. versus the U.S. and Mexico. However, I think there's a lot that Mexico can learn on the regulatory co-operation side and we can bring them along perhaps faster and learn from our mistakes, if we get them to the table early.
If there's a way to include them in that conversation around border facilitation and multimodal pre-clearance, we should be doing that now and not waiting until we think they are ready for that conversation.
Conservative
NDP
Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON
You have given us all great examples of ways in which we could improve NAFTA today. I think there's a strong push for that. I also think there's an opportunity for an offensive ask.
I want to ask Ms. MacEwen if she could elaborate on what she sees as an offensive ask and if she could speak about right-to-work legislation in the States and how we could approach that.
Senior Economist, Canadian Labour Congress
In the past, labour unions have suggested that right-to-work legislation is actually a subsidy to corporations and that it's an unfair subsidy. Under NAFTA or under the WTO, we could possibly launch a complaint regarding how the United States unfairly subsidizes companies by allowing them to pay workers less, because that's what ends up happening in right-to-work states. It's also a violation of the ILO conventions around the right to organize, and freedom of association, and all of those things.
That could be something we could raise as an offensive ask and say, “Look, if you can't ratify 98 or improve the labour chapter, this is what we're going to have to do.” Trump and Obama both talked about improving the labour chapter, but didn't do it because they are as much in violation as Mexico is.
NDP
Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON
Something else I'm not sure was mentioned..., and I apologize for coming in late. The trade committee is travelling to the U.S.
You mentioned, Mark, that we should be doing business-to-business. I think that needs to happen at the labour level as well, in fact, at all levels. We have been travelling. We're heading to Detroit, Illinois, and D.C. in a few weeks. We have been to California, and the west coast. We certainly are doing our part on that as well. We're trying to share that story and travel with it.
Senior Economist, Canadian Labour Congress
If the committee wants help setting up meetings with labour and civil society wherever you go, we can work with the AFL-CIO and help make those connections because unions like LiUNA, steel, and other unions are doing a really good job, I think, of making that case.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Randy Hoback
That actually might be a good idea, if we do the Midwest and into Mexico. There are lots of people in the Midwest that are showing concern. They are feeling left out.
Thank you.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Council of the Great Lakes Region
There are lots in Pennsylvania and Ohio.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Randy Hoback
Exactly. I think the committee is planning to do that in the fall.
Witnesses, thank you so much for tolerating our tardiness and for your great testimony here this afternoon.
I'm going to suspend the session right now for two minutes before we go in camera. We will ask everybody to clear the room before we go in camera. Please travel safely as you head home.
Thanks.
[Proceedings continue in camera]