International Trade Committee on Feb. 1st, 2018

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Great. What about the trucking aspect?

[Andrew Dixon]

With respect to trucking we have some major carriers in New Brunswick, and then some smaller ones as well. This is the home to Day & Ross, Midland, Sunbury. We have other small carriers like Blacks Transfer, for instance, that do a lot of work within New Brunswick to the port. While there's a challenge in that industry with a lack of qualified operators and drivers, we have never had that challenge manifest itself as being a problem for our import/export activity.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Great. Just adding to that then, looking at the opportunities, unfortunately the closing of the Piccadilly mine has had a significant impact on the area. Why is it that Saskatchewan potash is now being shipped over to Saint John and then exported from there? Obviously, there was an opportunity.

[Andrew Dixon]

Yes, that's a great question. A lot of the time people will think, Saskatchewan is basically on the west coast, so you'd ship out of the west coast. In fact, it's still quite a distance to go through either Canadian or U.S. ports on the west coast. In shipping to the east coast, CN has been able to put a program together to ship longer trains. They've established some economies of scale that were very helpful to Canpotex, the shipper in this case. It's really worked very well, particularly for the fact that a lot of the destinations are on east coast, South America, so in Latin America, either Central or South America. If you're going to Brazil, it's one thing to consider what the origin is, and then another to consider what the destination is, and just their volume altogether. They have ready infrastructure and a terminal here in the Port of Saint John. The business has worked very well.

In 2017, as I mentioned, we actually saw our biggest shipment year ever of potash exports. Obviously, it's working pretty well.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Great. Thank you.

I'm presenting before the House in March a private member's motion on the protection of endangered whales. I'm wondering, Andrew, if you can speak to any changes in shipping lanes or speeds, regarding container ships as well as cruise lines coming up the east coast, to basically avert any ship strikes with the North Atlantic right whale.

[Andrew Dixon]

As a pre-qualifier first, our VP of operations and harbour master Captain Chris Hall would be the one most qualified to answer that question, but while this issue has been very newsworthy lately with the unfortunate realities of what's happening with right whale deaths, this has been for the last couple of decades, if not beyond, at the forefront in the Bay of Fundy. That's what I can speak to primarily. Shipping lanes and patterns have been altered, and speed has been altered in order to ensure that everything possible is being done to protect the whale population in the Bay of Fundy.

I know that there's now some further movement to assist with that in the St. Lawrence. I wouldn't be up on what's taking place there currently, so I wouldn't like to comment.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

We're going to move to the NDP now. Ms. Ramsey, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Thank you to our presenters today.

I would like to say that I believe we have the best workers here in Canada, and if we are on a level playing field with workers in other countries we can absolutely be competitive and excel. But I believe we have a responsibility to ensure that we don't turn a blind eye to the working and human rights conditions of workers in the countries that we have trading relationships with.

I want to point specifically to a Canadian Labour Congress response to a report that came out. It's dated Thursday, February 2, 2017. It's about the rights of Colombians to collectively bargain to have a union, and what the reality is for people who attempt to do so. There are quotes in here about the anti-union hostility, intimidation, and threats that exist for Colombians who are trying to form a union, to have some freedom of association to improve their working conditions. It notes here that there are long-standing complaints of violence and intimidation used to restrict workers' freedom of association and collective bargaining.

Could you speak to this response to the report that you put out and tell us about the conditions that exist for working people in Colombia today?

[Hassan Yussuff]

Colombia has been, as you know, probably one of the most violent places on the planet for trade unionists. We've had more trade unionists killed in Colombia than in any country in the world. It's not just me saying that; it's a report of the ILO. They've established a process within the ILO to hold Colombia accountable to try to reduce this violence, and more importantly to try to change it. Since we have signed our free trade agreement with Colombia, it allows us the opportunity to bring complaints to the Canadian government about the Colombian government's behaviour and what they have not been able to do in bringing their laws into compliance with the trade agreement. Those complaints we filed with the Canadian government were sustainable. Now there is a process where the Canadian government, the Minister of Labour, will be engaging Colombia to...laws that they would have to repeal to ensure they're not in violation with our free trade agreement, but more importantly, to also take positive steps.

One of the other developments that I think is positive is that for the first time, Colombia has concluded a major peace agreement with the guerillas, this war having gone on for decades. We're hopeful this could substantially change the climate in which trade unions have been experiencing violence in that country. Time will tell, but I think the peace agreement will certainly contribute significantly to help make that better. We're hoping the minister will be travelling to Colombia to meet with her counterpart there. I know our officials have been working since they have issued their report and their findings. We're hoping now that the Colombian government will show tangible movement, because in absence of that, it will be a complete breach in terms of the provisions in the trade agreement we signed with Colombia.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

In terms of the other countries in the Pacific Alliance, certainly Mexico is top of mind. We're talking a lot about the rights of Mexican workers. Of course, there was a horrible incident with a worker who was murdered outside a mine just last week. I'm also looking at Peru and Chile.

Could you speak to these other Pacific Alliance countries, their ability to organize and bargain collectively, and the workers' rights that exist in those countries?

[Hassan Yussuff]

In the renegotiations of NAFTA one persistent challenge we face—in addition to the United States, despite the rhetoric—is that we have tabled probably the best labour chapter to say that if this truly is about how we improve the conditions, here is the power to do so. In terms of this new provision that has been tabled in the renegotiation, neither the Americans nor the Mexicans have yet acquiesced to Canada's demand. I can say without any hesitation the government has been persistent and committed to pushing those countries and saying, “Listen, we've talked a great deal about how we can do things.” Mexico is the country, when we first signed NAFTA, that had better laws than Canada. The unfortunate thing is they have not enforced their laws—

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Yes.

[Hassan Yussuff]

—and continue to not enforce their laws. I think that is where the frustration that has evolved in the last 20-something years of NAFTA has shown that it is a complete weakness.

Peru, of course, and Chile.... We had a long-standing agreement with Chile. Most recently, the Chilean government made a major effort to reform labour laws in that country. I think it's a positive step. Whether that will be sustained or just change.... Of course, a new government has just been elected, so we'll see—

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Sorry to interrupt you, but do you know if the labour provisions that have been put forward in NAFTA have been put forward in the Pacific Alliance agreement as well?

[Hassan Yussuff]

I don't know that for a fact, but we will obviously ask the department whether it has been submitted or not.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

We're going to move back to the Liberals.

Mr. Dhaliwal, you have the floor.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Welcome, presenters, to the committee.

Mr. Dixon, are there any security concerns when you import from and export to these Pacific Alliance countries?

[Andrew Dixon]

We have a very strong relationship with CBSA, the Canada Border Services Agency, here in Saint John. There are several initiatives that we work on together. They're on site as almost an employee and an operator within the port, with some very sophisticated equipment for detection in export and import, but the emphasis is on import when you're looking at South American and Central American countries.

They have the ability to grow in their analyzing and checking of the container volumes along with the growth in business, so we stay very close with them. In fact, interestingly enough, we have a meeting next week of several people from the CBSA and our folks, talking about this exact subject and what will be required, what infrastructure is required, and how they can fit in best with the modernization and growth to ensure that they're ready. I'm very comfortable with the process and with the current program in that regard.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you.

Hassan, again, it's always great to see you and the great work that you do to protect workers' rights.

You mentioned Colombia and that we had a free trade agreement. I was on the committee at that time. I had the opportunity to travel to Colombia and to see first-hand the situation on the ground and how UNO was helping the displaced people. Would you say that things have improved with the signing of the agreement?

[Hassan Yussuff]

I think that for the first time we have some standards to adhere to, as of course Colombia has too. I think that the Canadian government, in the complaint we filed, certainly found that Colombia had not met its commitment under the current free trade agreement with them. They're going to be travelling there because there are some laws they have passed that they have to repeal because they completely contradict what's in the Canada-Colombia Free Trade Agreement.

I think what was very good about the process was that the Canadian officials who participated in that process were very transparent in their engagement. They had the opportunity to go to Colombia to meet with those who were filing the complaint, and they tried to investigate in a very comprehensive way. Subsequently, they produced a report that we're very proud of. The Americans did exactly the same thing with a completely different outcome. We're hopeful.

Our Minister of Labour Patty Hajdu will be travelling to Colombia to say, “Hey, you have to meet these recommendations. Otherwise you're in breach of our relationship in this free trade agreement.”

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Do you see that if we have an agreement in place, it's better than not having an agreement in place?

[Hassan Yussuff]

The agreement allows us to hold the other country to a certain standard. Equally, they can hold us to the same standard. It's not a one-way street, it works both ways. If we are not in compliance, we should be held accountable.

In regard to this particular agreement, the question was asked earlier about the labour chapter that has been tabled in NAFTA. I think many of those who looked at it, including us, would say it's probably the best that has ever been tabled in any trade agreement to date.

In answer to Tracey's question, we are aware that the department will be submitting that chapter as part of this process for the Canada-Pacific Alliance free trade agreement.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

We see how free trade helps small businesses grow. When small businesses grow, the workers grow as well, and the middle class grows. Would you agree that having free trade helps the small businesses and helps Canadians who are middle class?