International Trade Committee on Feb. 6th, 2018

[Francesca Rhodes]

As I understand it, with the Chile agreement, it's not enforced yet, so the committee hasn't been set up or started to run activities.

In the chapter, the language at the moment isn't specific about who that committee should be. As you say and in our experience as well, often the groups that do get access to these spaces are those that are already quite privileged. Women who own businesses and so on definitely need a seat at the table to have a voice on particular issues that face women-owned enterprises. However, we propose that, for example, labour movements that represent sectors where women are particularly concentrated should be included. Women's organizations from the particular countries that are part of the trading agreement could be included as well. Often in countries, women's organizations organize through networks. Those are often really good places to look for people who can represent a broad range of women's interests.

[Kate Higgins]

Could I add to that?

We're advocating that these gender committees be inclusive and that they represent a diversity of voices, but also that they be well resourced with clear targets and a clear mandate to move things forward. Otherwise, our fear is that the committee will not—for want of a better expression—have teeth, and that it will not have the resources and mandate to really move forward the gender equality dimensions of the chapter.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Another thing that you mentioned that I think is very important across all trade but certainly around the progressive elements that are moving forward in trade agreements are the mechanisms for accountability and monitoring.

I wonder if you could speak to what you envision that looking like and an ability to actually start moving forward on these issues versus just having something that is aspirational.

[Francesca Rhodes]

I think it very much starts with having a strong analysis of the existing situation and the potential gendered impact of the trading relationship. For example, the UN Conference on Trade and Development has developed a gender tool kit to do an economic analysis, from a gender perspective, of how the trade agreement would affect the different economies and the sectors where women are concentrated. That kind of information is really essential to be able to then do another assessment as to how the trading relationship has developed and what the impact has been.

Then, it's important to have agreement that in the trade agreement there be binding provisions to meet certain core labour standards and that this gender committee actually have a role and a set of accountability mechanisms to be able to make recommendations for things that need to change based on the analysis that they would be bound to carry out.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you. That wraps up the time there. We're going to go back to the Liberals.

Mr. Peterson, you have the floor.

[Kyle Peterson, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, everyone, for being here this morning.

Mr. Wessel, I want to pick up on something you referred to in your opening remarks—the use of EDC, BDC, and the trade commission.

Can you elaborate on the important role that these organizations play in tapping into some of the markets that are lucrative for Canadian producers?

[Mark Wessel]

Yes. The trade commissioner services through our consulates in the Pacific Alliance countries provide support to companies that want to go into the market. They identify potential local partners, identify qualified distributors for them. They help the companies structure meetings with high-level government officials. In my case, I have taken four Canadian companies into Latin America. The trade commissions been very instrumental in opening the doors to having meetings with key government members. They open the doors to Canadian companies to collaborate with other Canadian companies already operating in a specific country.

EDC, obviously, is our financial arm. The last time I...they had over $100 billion in loan portfolios. They assist Canadian companies to get financing. CCC helps out with.... Right now, I'm taking off to Africa. They are there to provide performance guarantees.

Canada is unique in the sense that I've never had experience with any other government that provides as much quality support to its citizens and to the companies going into the regions. The trade commissioner services are very active. They're very qualified and highly educated. They know the market. They know the government. They know the private sector. Canada has a lot of small to medium-sized companies that don't have the financial wherewithal to go and develop markets. Typically, it will take you two to three years and a few hundred thousand dollars. Many Canadian companies lack that. The trade commissioner service provides an incredible amount of free advice and experience.

[Kyle Peterson, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you for that.

I was going to follow up with your comment on the prohibitive nature of freight rates.

Mr. Kingston, I'll segue that point into asking you a more general question. Do we have the infrastructure in place to get to these markets if the market grows? I'm including things such as freight rates. Is it even cost-effective to get to these markets if they expand at a rate...? Is the infrastructure in place to tap into these markets?

[Brian Kingston]

It's not fully there right now, and that's why we were quite supportive of the Canada infrastructure bank. We're hoping it will focus on large products that put emphasis on trade-enabling infrastructure—rail, ports, highways, and airports—to ensure that as Canada signs more trade agreements like this, we actually have the capacity to process all of this freight.

We're getting there.

[Kyle Peterson, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Yes, the trade agreement is one piece of the puzzle, but the infrastructure obviously has to be in place too.

[Brian Kingston]

It's critical, yes.

[Kyle Peterson, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

I think everyone around the table agrees that the trade agreement's about more than just reducing tariffs. The WTO has already done a great job on that. Trade agreements are becoming much more. I'd like to follow up with Oxfam on that. It seems to me that you're of the position that these agreements can certainly be a positive lever for progressive relationships between countries.

Can you elaborate, not just on the gender chapter, gender integration of the agreements—which, of course, is important—but also on how these agreements and Canada's being in markets like Chile and Colombia and Peru can help those countries develop a more progressive reality?

Are trade agreements the right tool for that?

[Kate Higgins]

Our response is that they're one of many tools. There are a number of other policy tools that the Canadian government has, such as its very progressive, feminist international assistance policy, and there's the great news of the recent announcement of the ombudsperson on human rights. This is one of many tools that the Canadian government has to bring forward its progressive agenda.

For example, I know that in the free trade agreements with Peru and Colombia, there was quite an impressive investment in ensuring the gender dimensions were realized through capacity-building activities that were supported by the Canadian government.

Our position on this is that it makes a lot of sense to engage in these gender discussions early on and prioritize them as part of the broader progressive agenda. For the Canadian government to be a first joiner to pushing this progressive trade agenda forward, and pushing gender equality as much as possible to the front of the discussion in this Pacific Alliance negotiation, makes a lot of sense. It enables us to help lift the bar on these issues, rather than have it continue to be a race to the bottom on women's rights and precarious work.

[Kyle Peterson, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

We have time for two more MPs. We're going to start off with the Liberals.

Madam Lapointe, you have five minutes. Go ahead.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome everyone.

Mr. Kingston, you have said earlier, on the subject of agreements, that the CPTPP and CETA are gold standards we should follow. I would like to know what you would like to see in these standards.

You have also talked about e-commerce and labour force mobility.

For the latter, what kind of workers did you have in mind, and where would you like to see improvements?

[Brian Kingston]

Thank you. That's an excellent question.

The reason we look at CETA and TPP as gold standard agreements is that they cover the whole range of issues outside of just tariffs and investment.

CETA covers services quite comprehensively. CETA includes mutual recognition of skills. It's still early days, but hopefully, for qualified architects, engineers, etc., if their trade association works with the equivalent group in Europe you could see a situation where Canadian professionals could go and work in Europe and their education and skills would qualify. Again, it's early days, but that is what I would consider the gold standard of a trade deal—actually having labour mobility at that level.

Turning to TPP, in that agreement both environment and labour are subject to dispute settlement. That's an innovation that we haven't seen before. We've had those issues addressed in side letters, but when you subject something to dispute settlement, it is truly enforceable. If countries don't live up to what they've agreed to, they of course could be challenged under the rules of the agreement. That's a development that we think is positive.

On the labour mobility point, the reason it was a challenge for Canada to join the Pacific Alliance as a full member was that one of the requirements was complete labour mobility, getting rid of all visa requirements. That's the situation among the four countries. Obviously that would be a challenge for Canada right now, to remove all visa requirements. I don't think that's possible. We could do something like a NEXUS, a trusted traveller program for business travellers, for example, to facilitate their movement within the region. I think that would be a really positive development.

There's room to build on the labour mobility side. We can't go to full labour mobility, but there's definitely some room to improve it.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

You mainly talked about architects and other people belonging to professional associations, but what about technicians?

In some cases, when new factories open up, technicians are needed for their know-how. What are your plans for that?

[Brian Kingston]

Yes, absolutely, this has been a huge problem in, frankly, the Canada–U.S. relationship, where even just bringing in a specialist from the U.S. or vice versa, sending someone to the States to set up a new line, for example, can be a challenge. It needs to be addressed. I hope CETA does address it.

We have to remember, too, that we don't even have free labour mobility in Canada yet. A construction worker from Quebec can't come over to Ontario.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Indeed.

[Brian Kingston]

We'd like to see it on the international side, but we have a really long way to go domestically.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Yes, why make things simple when we can make them complicated?

[Brian Kingston]

Yes.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I would now like to ask Mr. Wessel a question.

[Kyle Peterson, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

We have to get better beer—