International Trade Committee on Feb. 25th, 2020

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you to both of you. We've been hearing a lot about other industries, but less about non-agricultural industries, so it's refreshing to have you here and to hear your perspective.

Northern Cables, I'm trying to figure out your issue here. Is this changed because of the new CUSMA versus the old NAFTA, or is your concern the perhaps subsidized cable that is coming in from offshore? I'm trying to figure out the exact issue. Is it something to do with the actual document of CUSMA, the change in regulations from what it was before to now, or is it really about dumping, or perhaps dumping, of cheap cable from, e.g., Asia or China?

[Todd Stafford]

We do not have a direct issue with the wording of the agreement. Again, our industry has enjoyed relatively free trade for decades.

Our issue is that in this agreement [Technical difficulty—Editor] really just concerns that Canada is not a full partner. If we don't have good trade practices, if we.... This agreement, if this leads into harmonization of standards, I don't think you want your house wired with cable that's made to a Mexican standard. If we're going to harmonize, we have to harmonize [Technical difficulty—Editor]

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Your concern is that your cable is specified for Canadian standards, and that if they standardize it with American/Mexican standards.... It's the -40°C versus the -21°C standard. I see what you're saying. Okay. Thanks for clarifying that.

The other part is the very difficult situation where.... Well, it's not very difficult; you'd have to go to the WTO, and if there were anti-dumping duties on the raw goods coming in, that would be a whole different ball game. I wanted to make sure we were not allowing a new loophole in the U.S. for this to come in.

My second question is for Honey Bee. That's a great name. I first thought you were from the very famous Honeybee Centre, which is near my riding. Every school kid ends up attending the Honeybee Centre. We buy our honey from there.

[Jamie Pegg]

Thanks.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

This is actually a very good success story that you manufacture agriculture farming products that are exported in large numbers worldwide.

I was wondering—it may be in our inboxes—if you have given a submission on your exact.... It's a very technical problem that you have in terms of the copyright. Have you given that to our chair? It may not have been translated or I may not have printed it out, but it would be helpful—

[Scott D. Smith]

It is submitted.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Okay.

Your problem is that under the U.S. Copyright Law, the U.S. allows somebody in your situation to do the work you do easily there. I'm trying to be very—

[Scott D. Smith]

Legally.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

—legally. This is the Coles Notes of it. In Canada, if you try to do the same thing, you would not be allowed to do that legally.

Has that always been the case and you're now wanting us to change it, or does that change as a result of CUSMA?

[Scott D. Smith]

It's possibly always been the case, but the nature of the equipment was always straightforward interconnectivity.

The one thing that happens when you move from an old agreement to a new agreement is that you modernize it to reflect the realities of modern industry. I think that's what we've missed in this case and in many cases with respect to digital protections on people's products and the ability to circumvent them legally, easily or cost-effectively, rather than intentionally blocking participation.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

When you spoke to people at GAC, Global Affairs, regarding this, and you said you've had extensive talks, where did you come with the fear? Is it just something that the industry fears, that if we match the U.S. rules on copyright, which is what you're asking for, we would somehow get retaliatory action? My “30,000 feet above” analysis would be that the U.S. would not be able to object if we matched the same regulations as theirs. It would be the other way around, if we changed them or made it easier on our side versus the other side.

[Scott D. Smith]

I would agree with that to the extent that, if we do the minimum we've requested, which is to be on equal footing with the U.S. with respect to the copyright exemption, we're still on an unequal footing because of the lack of interoperability, that we have to pay to interoperate—

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

I see, okay.

[Scott D. Smith]

—at the expense of our innovation spending.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

That's on the interface. That's where you're saying—

[Scott D. Smith]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

—to reverse engineer, and you have to reverse engineer and then make the operating equipment.

[Scott D. Smith]

If you take a keyboard and plug it into your computer, it's just one connector and you just plug it in.

What we have to do in our industry is take wires from each individual key and open up your computer and take those wires and plug them into each individual key on the keyboard that came with the computer to make it work, rather than just plugging it in once.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

The reason—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Okay, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Go ahead, Mr. Lewis.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you to our witnesses.

Northern Cables, I just did a little bit of background reading on your website, and I note three specific lines in there, so my questions are actually around the lines.

The first one states that Northern Cables has had sharp price increases to aluminum and steel. Will the rules of origin or other elements of the new NAFTA impact these prices further? Do you know that?

[Todd Stafford]

We don't believe so. There's a good domestic market for aluminum, and we actually have copper smelted in Montreal that we buy. Steel, galvanized steel used in cable, is not available in Canada and we have had.... In the tariffs that we had a couple of years ago there was an issue, but with free trade, we should not have any issues with that.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

You don't expect there to be any issues, then, with regard to your customers and what they pay for it today going forward.