International Trade Committee on Feb. 18th, 2020

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

How about I move it and someone second it?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

It's seconded by Mr. Blaikie.

Does everyone agree to the extended hours for next week?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you all very much. We're going to be spending lots of time together.

We are going to suspend for three or four minutes for witnesses to leave and our other panel to come up, and maybe some of us can grab a bite to eat.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I call the meeting back to order. Pursuant to our order of reference, we're studying Bill C-4.

Welcome to our witnesses. We appreciate your coming during this late part of the afternoon. Excuse us for trying to.... For members, this is their lunch, dinner and the rest of it. We've been working very hastily, trying to deal with all the issues of NAFTA.

Appearing as individuals, we have Michael Bose and D'Arcy Hilgartner. From Canada's Buildings Trades Unions, we have Robert Kucheran, chairman of the executive board. From the Canadian Trucking Alliance, we have Lak Shoan, director, policy and industry awareness. From the Dairy Farmers of Canada, we have Christopher Cochlin, and from Vermeer's Dairy Limited, Jake Vermeer.

Welcome to all of you. As I said, thank you for making the time.

We'll start with you, Mr. Bose.

[Michael Bose, As an Individual]

First, I'd like to thank the committee for inviting me here. When I first got the invitation, I wasn't quite sure why anybody would want to hear what I have to say. I'm just a farmer. I'm not a lobbyist. I'm not an expert in any field other than raising turkeys.

I'd like to thank all the committee members for the time they put in. I know that your jobs are very difficult. The work on this agreement has been very difficult, and it has been for many years.

I'm a fourth-generation farmer, fourth-generation Canadian. My family started in Surrey in 1891. We continue to farm. The fifth generation is at this moment wanting to take over the farm. We started in dairy. We suffered the ups and downs of an unregulated industry. My great-grandfather saw it stabilize through supply management. My father in his sixties went on his own. He started a turkey farm and was part of the group that started the supply-managed sector for turkey in B.C. We've seen the ups and downs. This industry is important.

I know that the gentleman to my left is not going to agree with everything I have to say.

This is like death by a thousand cuts. First we had the TPP. In those negotiations on turkey, we gave up our growth for 12 years. Now we have the CUSMA, which gives up more growth. It's developing an unstable environment for our industry to continue in this province. I don't think enough consideration has been given to the effects of this on our industry. First, it's a fact that for every kilo of breast meat imported into Canada, we lose four kilos of farm gate production—four kilos of production through the processing plants. We just shipped a flock of turkeys. I did the math, and we're back to 1980 to 1990 prices, yet we're paying the expenses of 2020. Without a stable, secure marketplace for our poultry, it will be impossible for the next generation to pick up and take over from where we will leave off. This will end my family's history, in Surrey, of farming.

I know it's difficult, but we need to find a way. This agreement will be ratified. We all know that. We're not kidding ourselves. We need the government to negotiate compensation for the turkey industry as they have negotiated for the dairy industry. We need some form of stabilization for the farmers. We also need funding put aside for market development so that we can regain market share against our competitors.

I know this is about free trade, and I support free trade. There are segments of agriculture that will benefit hugely by the three agreements we've already signed, but the supply-managed industry supplies Canada. We cannot supply the U.S. with Canadian product, because we'd be entering a subsidized market and our product just would not be competitive. We can't sustain any further cuts to our bottom line, our revenue. It's imperative, if we're going to sign this agreement, that there's support to continue the industry. The supply-managed industry is very important to Canadian agriculture. It supplies the critical mass that sustains the infrastructure for all the rest of agriculture to compete and exist.

With that, I'll cede my time to the gentleman to my left.

[D'Arcy Hilgartner, As an Individual]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to start by thanking the committee for the opportunity to speak to you this evening. As a Canadian farmer I'm acutely aware of the importance of international trade.

I'll give you a little background about me. I come from a family farm outside Camrose, Alberta, which is 85 kilometres southeast of Edmonton. Along with my brother, our spouses, children and parents we run a farm that produces cereals, wheat and barley; oilseeds, canola and flax; and pulses, peas and fava beans. We do have some cattle as well to extract some value-added out of land that is not suited for crop production. We are currently managing about 8,000 acres for ourselves and do custom work on an additional 1,000 acres. Like many family farms, our hope is to one day pass our operation down to the next generation, so much of what we have to do is look through the lens of improving our operation, the soil we depend on and the crops we produce to increase the sustainability and profitability of our farm, leaving it in better condition than when we started.

Farming is a tough business. As many say, if it was easy everyone would do it, but it's not so we try to be as efficient as we can, managing the variables within our grasp. We can't control the weather, but we can use reduced tillage to maximize the moisture and heat we receive. Cropping inputs are a huge part of our operation and expenses in costs can fluctuate year to year, so we do our best to buy when prices are within our budget and use technologies like variable rate seed and fertilizer and GPS guidance to make sure we are using these items judiciously, not only for our bottom line but for the consumer, who is ever increasingly concerned about how their food is produced.

Canadian farmers are amazing at producing high-quality, sustainably produced crops in large abundance, and with a relatively small population that means we need foreign markets. Seventy-five per cent of our wheat, 90% of our canola and up to 75% of pulses are sent to global buyers. In some sectors, like pulses, we are the largest exporter in the world. One in two jobs in the crop production sphere depend on these exports, so trade is key. Global prices will always fluctuate with supply and demand, a reality of the system farmers can deal with. But it's the artificial barriers—tariffs, restrictions and regulations that may not be based on scientific assessments—that may be difficult to manage.

Bilateral and multilateral agreements between countries help to facilitate that flow of goods. They eliminate many of these barriers and provide a dispute mechanism to deal with future issues. Trade agreements are very important, especially with our closest countries and their large populations.

The NAFTA agreement has worked well for my industry since coming into effect in 1994. Since its inception our trade with the U.S. and Mexico has grown dramatically, creating a highly integrated supply chain among our countries. In my own community it has created an economic environment to build a canola crushing facility. Though oil and meal are shipped by rail—maybe not this week—the oil is heading to Asian markets and the meal is heading to dairies in California.

When the U.S. government made it known that they wanted to reopen the agreement, that was a concern for many sectors, especially knowing the unorthodox negotiation methods that the current U.S. administration has undertaken with other global affairs. For most farmers this negotiation in the grain sector was more about retaining what we had already established. Duty-free access to the U.S. and Mexican markets was key, but the agreement was also 25 years old and there was room for improvement.

Biotechnology and plant breeding, including techniques that were just in their infancy or didn't exist in 1984, were missing. There was room for regulatory harmonization in food and crop products, especially in the areas of crop production, protection products and developing maximum residue limits. Low-level presence with biotech crops had become a challenge to our ability to detect a substance and move from parts per million to parts per billion. Zero tolerance was no longer achievable and standards needed to be set. For cereal crops like wheat, the current legislation created inequity with our U.S. farmers, delivering registered varieties into the Canadian market that Canadian farmers were not subjected to. As well, canola-based, value-added products like margarine and shortening were subject to tariffs, making it less competitive in the U.S. market.

After a little over a year of negotiations, we had a deal on the table, the Canada-United States-Mexico Agreement, CUSMA.

The key component is the retention of duty-free access into the U.S. and Mexican markets. This is by far the most important part for the sector and for me. The continuation of stable and reliable trade with the U.S. and Mexico is vital. As well, it addressed many of the areas of concern I mentioned earlier, with chapters on biotech, regulatory harmonization, provisions for low-level presence events and removal of tariffs on items such as margarine. As well, U.S. wheat grown with varieties registered in Canada would receive a Canadian grade, which is no different from Canadian-produced.

Do I have concerns with the agreement as it stands? I have a few. Chapter 32, which requires the U.S. and Mexico to be notified when we enter into trade negotiations with a non-market country, as well as for us to supply the agreement for review before signing, does seem to push the boundaries of national sovereignty. The use of words like “encouraged” and “important steps forward” in regard to modernization of procedures and harmonization of regulations in various areas tends to be viewed with cynicism within the agricultural community. The hope is that these will not just be words but will have concrete actions to go along with them.

Canadian farmers are currently facing substantial global trade issues with countries like India and China, where we have developed markets but lack significant trade agreements. Such agreements offer rules and procedures to handle disputes. We know dispute settlement processes are long and less than perfect, but they're a starting point for negotiation.

The eyes of the world are upon us. Global traders are looking for high-quality, consistently produced and reliably delivered agricultural products. Farmers in Canada are up to the task in the areas of production and quality. We look to the government and this committee to focus on those impediments to trade that exist not only in the world market but right here at home.

Events of recent weeks have had a huge effect on investor confidence in our country, and they concern global buyers as to our ability to deliver products in a timely manner. As a grain farmer from central Alberta, I find CUSMA to offer subtle changes over the current NAFTA agreement, but for my farm and those of producers across the country, having a stable and reliable supply chain integrated with our neighbouring countries is key to our economic growth. We need more trade, not less.

We appreciate the work of this committee. A part of good governance is oversight and analysis to make sure that agreements that this country enters into are in the best interests of Canada and Canadians, but I look forward to the ratification of this agreement so we can focus on the next challenges ahead.

I thank you for your time and look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you both very much.

We'll go to Mr. Kucheran from Canada's Building Trades Unions.

[Robert Kucheran]

Thank you very much.

My name is Robert Kucheran. I'm the chairman of the executive board of Canada's Building Trades Unions. We're the voice of over 500,000 skilled Canadian construction workers, members of 15 international unions who work in more than 60 different trades and occupations. Construction is one of the largest sectors in the Canadian economy, representing about 14% of Canada's GDP.

Although the Canada-United States-Mexico agreement, CUSMA, does not have a direct impact on the CBTU or the construction we represent, its efforts to improve labour standards among the three countries have a direct, positive impact on our sector. Therefore, the impending ratification of the updated CUSMA offers us an important opportunity to voice support for this vital trade deal.

As mentioned, CUSMA includes a comprehensive labour chapter fully subject to the dispute settlement provisions of the agreement, which aims to raise and improve labour standards and working conditions in all three countries by building on international labour principles and rights. Labour standards and working conditions have always been a priority of the CBTU as well as our affiliates. We realize that these improvements are targeted to our trading partners, but that's a testament to the level of labour standards and working conditions we have in Canada and continue to advocate for and strengthen in this country. Specifically, the chapter on labour includes an annex on worker representation in collective bargaining in Mexico under which Mexico commits to specific legislative actions that would provide for the effective recognition of the right to collective bargaining. We applaud and support the Government of Canada in its goal of levelling the playing field on labour standards and working conditions to ensure that parties do not lower their levels of protection to attract trade or investment, but rather raise them to the higher standard.

Canada's Building Trades Unions are pleased about the added provisions that provide commitments to ensure greater protection for fundamental principles and rights at work, including prohibition of the importation of goods produced through forced labour; enforcement of obligations related to discrimination, such as discrimination based on sex, sexual orientation and gender identity; addressing violence against workers for exercising their labour rights, such as single instances of violence or threats thereof; and ensuring that migrant workers are protected under these labour laws.

Canada's Building Trades Unions supports these commitments, believing that stronger labour rights will lead to stronger health and safety laws not only for construction workers, but also for all workers. Along with stronger labour provisions, we believe that increased trade leads to stronger economies. This new agreement will reinforce the strong economic ties between the three countries and support the well-paying middle-class jobs that will strengthen the economies of all three countries.

We also support the significant gains that have been achieved for Canadian workers in general, as described earlier in the day by the Canadian Labour Congress in their submission.

Some of the highlights are the elimination of chapter 12, the investor-state dispute settlement provisions under the old NAFTA, which prioritized the rights of foreign investors and corporations over the rights of sovereign governments; the increased North American content requirement for vehicles from 62.5% to 75%; and the new labour value content requirement that stipulates that 40% of material and manufacturing costs in automobiles and 45% in trucks will have to originate in facilities where direct production workers have an average hourly wage of at least $16 U.S.; elimination of NAFTA's energy chapter, including the proportionality clause that required Canada to export a fixed share of energy production to the U.S., even in times of energy shortages; the strengthening of NAFTA's cultural exception, which is expanded to include digital industries; and a clear general exception for indigenous rights, which implies that nothing in this agreement prevents North American governments from fulfilling their legal, social, economic, cultural and moral obligations to first nations.

Canada's Building Trades Unions, along with our affiliation with North America's Building Trades Unions, welcomes the vital improvements to CUSMA that were negotiated early in 2019 between the House Democrats and the U.S. trade representative, and recently passed in the U.S. Senate. Some of these include the removal of language that allowed a responding party to block the formation of a dispute settlement panel; a reversal of the burden of proof on labour and environmental violations; the removal of language in article 23.6 that rendered unenforceable the prohibition of goods produced in whole or in part through forced and compulsory labour; the removal of language in article 23.7 that stipulated that parties only have to address cases of violence against workers that are occurring “through a sustained or recurring course of action or inaction”; the introduction of a bilateral rapid trade labour mechanism that allows for an independent investigation of potential violations of freedom of association and collective bargaining at specific facilities and, where violations are found to be occurring, the imposition of penalties on goods that are not produced in compliance with these obligations; and the removal of provisions requiring 10 years of market protection for biologics.

There's an area that still needs some attention. Canada’s Building Trades Unions would like to have seen greater access for qualified construction workers between Canada, the United States and Mexico. With similarities in training and accreditation for these skilled trades in both Canada and the U.S. specifically, we believe labour shortages in our countries can have a North American solution. We understand that Canada's negotiators attempted to include this in the negotiations, but ultimately it didn't get to the final text.

We thank our negotiators for listening to the CBTU and our affiliates who strongly advocated for this. We stand ready to consult with the Government of Canada to offer our expertise in areas of mutual benefit. Canada’s Building Trades Unions supports Bill C-4, an act to implement the agreement between Canada, the United States of America and the United Mexican States. We urge all parties to pass Bill C-4. We believe that the provisions and commitments included in CUSMA will continue reinforcing the strong economic ties between the three countries and well supporting middle-class jobs into the future.

I want to thank the committee for allowing us the opportunity to present.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much. We appreciate your comments.

From the Canadian Trucking Alliance, we have Mr. Shoan, please.

[Lak Shoan, Director, Policy and Industry Awareness, Canadian Trucking Alliance]

Good evening.

Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the committee, for having me here today.

The Canadian Trucking Alliance is here today to strongly endorse the ratification of the CUSMA. Canada's total trade, including imports and exports with all partners, is close to a trillion dollars. Almost half of this trade, or just over $500 billion, is with the United States. Our second largest trading partner, the EU, comes in at a distant second at $94 billion.

Who moves this trade? Measured by value, the trucking industry moves close to 70% of the trade with the U.S., which reflects the integrated nature of our economies. Typically, over 10 million trucks cross the Canada-U.S. border each year, with the value of goods increasing since 2011.

Over 40% of Canada's GDP is dependent upon trade with the United States. Some of the top import and export categories in 2018 included mineral fuels, vehicles, machinery, and plastics, all goods that can be transported by truck.

Canada is the United States' second largest supplier of agricultural imports, leading in categories such as snack foods, meats, vegetable oils, and processed fruits and vegetables. Canada is the United States' largest buyer of agricultural products, where again, trucking dominates as the mode servicing this trade category. Some of the leading agricultural import categories include fresh fruits and vegetables, snack foods, and non-alcoholic beverages. Some of Canada's top trading partners south of the border include Michigan, California, Texas, New York, Ohio, Illinois, and Washington.

CTA firmly believes that the Government of Canada has delivered the best deal possible for Canadians. With the U.S. being by far our largest trading partner, CTA welcomes the certainty of a trade deal.

CTA's analysis of certain sections of the agreement identified some positive changes on how goods cross the border by truck. Once ratified, CTA looks forward to working with the Government of Canada on the following potential items under CUSMA: potential revisions to the temporary admission of goods as they relate to movements and transit; changes to promote trade facilitation through electronic submissions, which will reduce burdensome paper processes; establishment of a single window system that would enable the electronic submission of data for all countries through a single entry point, which would reduce redundancies and simplify trade; potential changes to the administration of customs penalties and how they are imposed, including the treatment of clerical or minor errors; and lastly, facilitation of trade through programs designed to improve the movement of goods, including, if feasible, alignment of hours of service requirements, joint customs inspections and shared customs facilities.

CTA would like to close our statement by recognizing the commitment of the Government of Canada to continuing to make budget investments to make our border work from both a safety and trade perspective. This investment must continue to address physical infrastructure, IT systems, staffing at the border and developing policy to allow compliant and secure trucking companies to carry trade with the U.S. in the most efficient manner possible.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you so very much.

We'll go on to Mr. Vermeer from Vermeer's Dairy.

[Jake Vermeer, Vermeer's Dairy Ltd]

Good evening. My name is Jake Vermeer, and l'm a proud first-generation Canadian from Camrose, Alberta.

I am humbled to be given the chance to speak before you today on behalf of an industry that I am so passionate about. I want to begin by telling you about our farm, to help provide you with context regarding the people who are impacted by the CUSMA agreement.

ln 1991, local Dutch officials notified my father and grandpa that their land was going to be placed under an expansion ban for the purpose of diverting a local waterway through their land. This capped the number of cows that our family could milk and thus the farm could no longer sustain two families. This was a massive blow because, for generation upon generation, my blood lines have milked cows and tended the land together.

Farming is a lifestyle before it's a job. My grandpa told my father that if he was set on farming he would need to find a new place to start over. My parents were in no financial position to relocate in Holland, so they decided to come to Canada as exchange students and experience the tall tales of Canada that they had been hearing. Those tales of large parcels of land, genuine people and the opportunity to sustain a family did not disappoint. My parents, at the ages of 24 and 28, decided to immigrate and bought a small 40-cow dairy and 160 acres of land. They spoke little to no English and came to Canada with a strong work ethic, a desire to milk cows and a hope for the Canadian dream. Shortly after making the most significant investment of their young careers, the first NAFTA agreement was signed and talks of ending supply management circled the dairy industry. My mother remembers my father coming home from an Alberta milk meeting and saying, “I think we made a huge mistake.” However, stronger heads prevailed and the Canadian government was able to negotiate a fair deal for its dairy farmers, and they were able to prosper. They were relieved and continued to grow the farm.

The story of my parents and the farm legacy that they began is one that showcases true perseverance, hard work and progressiveness. lt was with that market stability and fair compensation offered by supply management that my parents turned that small 40-cow dairy into the 600-cow dairy it is today. We employ more than 15 local Camrose residents, and our farm generates a considerable amount of economic prosperity in a shrinking rural Alberta. Our farm, and many farms like it across the country, locally source grains, veterinarians and processing plant. lt is not hard to see that dairy farms are a large contributor to rural and urban economies. ln fact, across Canada we contribute nearly $20 billion toward the GDP and sustain about 200,000 jobs.

Times are changing, however. Countries have negotiated new trade deals with Canada, and our governments have slowly passed out our domestic dairy market shares. ln CUSMA alone, we will lose 3.9% of our market, as well as the elimination of class 7, an integral part of meeting the butter demand of Canadian consumers. lt's important to note that the 3.9% is in addition to the current access already granted through the World Trade Organization, the Canada-European Union Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement and the CPTPP. The combined access for all the agreements totals 18% of the Canadian market or $1.3 billion of Canadian producer revenue. Each of these deals delivers a crack to the foundation of supply management. There are deep local economic ramifications of these concessions. The projected loss for Alberta regarding the market loss is $16.13 million. The elimination of class 7 and restrictions on exports/surcharges ranges from $4.8 million to a staggering $29.66 million. We can assume those impacts will have a ripple effect, starting in rural Alberta with those that our farms rely on most and then have the potential to affect urban areas. This agreement will send an end to nearly 40 farms in Alberta and far more across Canada.

The negative effects don't end there. As a Canadian and a Canadian dairy farmer, I find one of my main concerns with the CUSMA agreement is the new American oversight on dairy policy in Canada. The oversight clause undermines Canadian sovereignty and its ability to develop and manage Canadian policies without U.S. intervention. These transparency provisions are contained in the annex in a series of clauses. For example, Canada must inform the U.S. of any milk class modification. The U.S.A. will not need to provide similar levels of transparency into its system. This approach is yet another example of how the CUSMA removes our competitive advantage and ties the Canadian dairy industry's hands to American decision-making. This should not be understated and will have a lasting effect on our domestic dairy sector. Our anthem proudly states “true north strong and free", but this new American oversight is far from it.

The Canadian government has continuously handed out market shares in every new trade deal, and this has left our dairy processors in a state of uncertainty. With a lack of investment, our processors are now aging and unable to meet the demands of our market. We need market stability in order to garner proper investment in the processing industry in order to compete against the foreign milk that is invading our market. Without this investment, farms like mine won't be able to continue to grow and contribute to the economy.

My final point comes from my grandparents, who still live in Holland. They notified us about a debate that is taking place in their parliament regarding CETA.

ln the last CETA agreement with Europe, Canadian beef farmers were given a new market share to export beef. We were told that this exchange was necessary for dairy access. However, the debate that is occurring is whether Europe feels that our Canadian beef meets their standards to be allowed into their supermarkets. If we have to make an import concession to create a new export market, should we not then allow our trading partners to close that market after the deal has been struck? Otherwise, what was the point of our dairy concessions? Now, both our beef and dairy farmers are no better off for it. There has to be a better way.

Dairy farmers in Canada have always been cherished as family farmers who produce the highest quality milk and take great pride in taking care of their herd. However, every time a new trade deal comes around, we are forced to sacrifice a portion of our market to complete the trade deal. We see very little in return for our sacrifice, and while we are appreciative of the compensation packages, we would much rather earn the money by supplying consumers with the dairy products they deserve. As a young producer looking forward to the future, I don't see the same thing my parents did 25 years ago.

As foreign governments demand my market shares and I see my costs rising for producing the same litres of milk, I worry about the sustainability of my livelihood, because farming isn't just a job, but a lifestyle.

I am proud to have been able to share with you the viewpoint of our family farm. My parents and I are still extremely proud to live in Canada, but we rightfully worry about the future and that of my kids. CUSMA will have a significantly negative impact on our dairy farm and on thousands across the country, not just now, but in perpetuity. I stand here feeling what my grandpa must have felt when his land was annexed so many years ago. Despite our best intentions, with 3:30 wake-ups, 14-hour days, and supporting our local communities, my farm will now struggle to grow, and I worry about our future.

Our farm has always had a saying: “If you're standing still, your going backwards.” lt's time for this government to let us move forward. I appreciate the opportunity to speak today, and I hope I was able to put a face to the negative impacts of signing this agreement and the impacts on dairy farms across Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you all very much.

We'll move on to our questioners.

Mr. Kram.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I understand a couple of the witnesses here today are from Damien Kurek's riding. He is joining me here today. I would like to give my time to Damien so he can ask questions of the witnesses.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Kram.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I appreciate all of the witnesses taking the time out of their busy schedules to come to Ottawa to share their perspectives on what is a very important issue. I think all those around this table and all the witnesses would agree on the importance of trade in an integrated market, even though there are disagreements as to some of the specific aspects of it.

Mr. Hilgartner, I would be very curious to hear some of the negative impacts, not just the trade uncertainty, regarding this new NAFTA agreement that your family operation has faced, but the impacts of the overall trade uncertainty on Canada in a global marketplace and how that's affected your local family operation.

[D'Arcy Hilgartner]

As I alluded to in my opening remarks, trade agreements are so important for stability. As a farmer, I can work with supply and demand. I can read the charts and get a sense of where I need to be. It's those tariffs, and more importantly, non-tariff barriers that are a challenge for me and my farm. We ran into that with India. Overnight they slapped a tariff and phytosanitary bans on pulse products entering our largest import market for our pulses from Canada. Overnight that market disappeared. That was a crushing blow for our industry, and it's a segment in the pulses that we're trying to develop now. The same goes for China, where we had issues with black blight. Is that based on sound science, or is there some other reason? Again, without having any kind of trade agreement with the markets, you can spend a lot of time developing a market and a relationship to have that end in a heartbeat.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

I appreciate that very much.

I think you addressed at the end of your answer something that concerns many of us, and that's section 32 and the erosion of Canadian sovereignty in Canada's trading relationships, not just with our North American counterparts, but around the world.

Acknowledging the importance of free trade, the sovereignty of our nation needs to be respected in this process. Would you have further comments, Mr. Hilgartner, about the impact that erosion of sovereignty would have specifically on the grains and access to those markets globally?

[D'Arcy Hilgartner]

I'm not a trade expert. I'm a farmer from central Alberta.

To me it seems unique that we would enter into trade agreements where any negotiations we might plan to enter in the future would be scrutinized by another government before even starting the negotiations, and then before we sign on to that. I do have some concerns with that: How would that play out? How is that going to work?

I know we've heard from our trade negotiators, who suggest that it won't be an issue. Again, the future will tell how that will play out, but it's a concern.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

I appreciate that, and the comment you made about just being a farmer. There are three “just farmers” at the table there, but let me assure you that just being a farmer.... It's a noble profession. I'm a fifth-generation farmer myself, and proud to farm in east-central Alberta. It's not “just a farmer”; it's a significant economic player involved in the community. I appreciate that you're all here sharing your perspectives before this committee.

I move my next question to Mr. Vermeer, on the same topic of Canadian sovereignty. It's very concerning, as Mr. Hilgartner has referenced. There's this erosion that another government—President Trump, for example—not only would have a role to play in Canada's negotiations with other countries in our trade agreements, but would also be involved pre-, during, and post-process in what those might look like.

Mr. Vermeer, would you have any further comments on any concerns related to that?

[Jake Vermeer]

My first question would be.... I would flip it back to you. Would the Americans agree to an agreement like this?

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

That's a great question, and one, I would suggest, that should be asked of the government that was at the negotiating table for at least part of the time—I know they were locked out of some of those negotiations. It's a very valid one.

[Jake Vermeer]

I could speak more to the sovereignty. That was just a question.

Yes, it's a big deal for us. We were able to create new classes and change milk class modifications inside our domestic policy agreements. Now, with this new clause that seems to be in CUSMA, we no longer will be able to have a competitive advantage by creating new milk class modifications. That puts us at a serious disability.

The big thing in CUSMA for the dairy farmers of Canada is this new annex that's being forced on us. We're going to have an export cap now, not just to America but completely internationally. This is completely new in international trade agreements, that we're actually having an export cap without any regard to whom we're dealing with. That is of significant importance, I think.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I'm sorry; the time is up.

We'll move on to Mr. Sarai.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

I want to thank you all for coming out here.

Though I come from Surrey—Mr. Bose is here—and I represent a very urban riding, Surrey Centre, it's one of the largest trading cities in the country. It has a large border with the U.S. It also has dairy farms, including one right across the street from my house. It probably has one of the largest trucking logistics hubs in North America, and it's the second-largest city. It's also home to three trades schools from your local branch of B.C. trades. What you have said is a cross-section of what happens in Surrey. It's great to know.

I'd like to assure Mr. Vermeer, based on what Mr. Hilgartner said, that having certainty helps a lot. You don't always get exactly what you want. We heard our chief negotiator last week, who let us know that the very first thing the Americans wanted was supply management; that was their main target. I am proud to say that we were able to defend 96.1% of that. Yes, there are some sacrifices, but we're hoping that we can work with your sector and perhaps come to methods that can help relieve it.

You should be proud that Canadian milk is some of the best milk in the world. I think that's our competitive edge, and you need to market that, with whatever help the government can provide. I ask that you do that.

On that same note, I want to ask a question of Mr. Bose, whose farm I drive by as I go home. It's a household name, the Bose farms in Surrey. How can the government help the turkey or poultry sector, in your particular case, to sustain itself, to increase itself? I know it's always had a challenging time, but with this agreement, how can we help you?