Evidence of meeting #7 for International Trade in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cusma.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Philip Vanderpol  President and Chief Executive Officer, Vitalus Nutrition
Colin Robertson  Vice-President and Fellow, Canadian Global Affairs Institute
Al Balisky  President and Chief Executive Officer, MLTC Resource Development LP
Claude Vaillancourt  President, Association québécoise pour la taxation des transactions financières et pour l'action citoyenne, Réseau québécois sur l'intégration continentale
Normand Pépin  Union Advisor, Centrale des syndicats démocratiques, Réseau québécois sur l'intégration continentale
Tracey Gorski  Manager, Sales and Marketing, NorSask Forest Products LP
Drew Dilkens  Mayor, City of Windsor, and Member, Big City Mayors' Caucus, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
Lawrence Herman  Counsel, Herman and Associates, As an Individual
Leo Blydorp  As an Individual
Judy Whiteduck  Director, Safe, Secure and Sustainable Communities, Assembly of First Nations
Risa Schwartz  Legal Counsel, Assembly of First Nations
Matthew Poirier  Director of Policy, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters
Alan Arcand  Chief Economist, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Christine Lafrance

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair (Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber River—Black Creek, Lib.)) Liberal Judy Sgro

I'm calling the meeting to order, pursuant to the order of reference of Thursday, February 6, 2020, Bill C-4, an act to implement the agreement between Canada, the United States of America and the United Mexican States.

Welcome to everybody. Welcome to our witnesses. Good morning to our committee members and a few friends we have visiting today.

I'll introduce the witnesses. From the Canadian Global Affairs Institute, we have Colin Robertson. From MLTC Resource Development, we have Al Balisky, and from NorSask Forest Products, Tracey Gorski. From the Réseau québécois sur l'intégration continentale, we have Claude Vaillancourt and Normand Pépin, and from Vitalus Nutrition, we have Philip Vanderpol, president and chief executive officer.

Mr. Vanderpol, would you like to lead off, please?

10:05 a.m.

Philip Vanderpol President and Chief Executive Officer, Vitalus Nutrition

Thank you and good morning, Madam Chair and committee members. I would like to thank you for the invitation to appear today to discuss the implications of CUSMA on Canada's dairy industry and on Vitalus specifically.

My name is Phil Vanderpol. I am the president and CEO of Vitalus Nutrition, a processor of value-added dairy ingredients.

Founded as a family business over 65 years ago, Vitalus is a leading producer of high-value, customized dairy ingredients for the world's food, beverage and nutritional industries. At our advanced facilities and FSSC 22000-certified processing plants located in British Columbia and in Manitoba, we process milk supplied by Canadian farmers into high-quality cream and butter, milk protein concentrates, and milk protein isolates that have superior quality, nutritional value and functionality.

Our products are used in multiple applications, such as nutrition bars, protein drinks, infant formula, baking, confectionary, dairy products, snack foods and much more. Vitalus supplies cream and butter to Canadian markets, and milk protein concentrates and isolates to both domestic markets and over 20 international markets.

In 2018, we expanded our B.C. facility and commissioned a new plant to produce Vitagos, a high-value prebiotic dairy ingredient also known as galacto-oligosaccharides. Vitagos is used extensively in infant formula, as well as digestive health products. As one of only a few plants in the world producing this product, Vitalus is the first to manufacture this type of product in North America.

Vitalus has a solid reputation and a strong brand recognition in the B2B marketplace. This is based on our unwavering commitment to quality, efficiency, custom capabilities and customer service.

At Vitalus, we've been able to capitalize on the growth in the nutritional value-added global dairy ingredients market. We have achieved double-digit revenue growth over the past three years, with the trend expected to continue this year. Our three-year compound annual growth rate on revenue has increased 49% from 2017 through to 2019, and we are forecasting continued growth into 2020.

We have achieved this growth by successfully expanding sales of our milk protein concentrates and isolates into global markets while also meeting the growth and demand for butterfat in the Canadian marketplace. This is evidenced by our export volume results from 2017 to 2019, which I will share with you. We have increased our export volumes in the last three years by 171% to Europe, thanks, certainly, in part to CETA; 132% to the U.S. market; 135% to the Middle Eastern and North African markets; and 65% to Asia. We have achieved this result by establishing long-term collaborative relationships with multinational food and beverage manufacturers around the world that value Canadian dairy ingredients.

As the second-largest food processing industry in Canada, the dairy sector contributes more than $20 billion annually to the country's economy. With Vitalus's export growth over the past three years, we are certainly contributing to Canada's achieving its growth targets in the agri-food sector. Between our two processing facilities, we employ over 200 highly skilled people, and we remain a proudly Canadian company.

Dairy processors, including Vitalus, have been motivated to continue the pattern of growth and move the industry—and Canada—forward. However, the pending implementation of CUSMA and the concessions that were made in dairy threaten to curb this growth and diminish the long-term competitiveness of the sector.

The Canadian dairy industry is experiencing a processing capacity shortfall that is expected to increase significantly in the near future due to a lack of sufficient investment in milk-drying plants. With pending plant closures as well, there may also be a decrease in the drying capacity for skim milk powder. Skim milk powder is generally produced to deal with the excess solids-not-fat that is produced as a result of meeting the butterfat demands within the Canadian market.

As you probably are aware, the domestic demand for butterfat continues to increase, and the lack of skim milk powder drying capacity already unbalances the system. It will only get worse going forward. With the implementation of CUSMA, skim milk powder and milk protein concentrates will be subjected to export volume caps, as well as an export tax on volumes over the cap, which will make it financially unfeasible to export.

It is important to note that milk protein concentrates over 85% in protein level and milk protein isolates are exempt from the export caps and tax. Building and operating a milk protein isolate plant, however, is a very costly endeavour with a long-term payback. The changes in the Canadian dairy processing environment, market demand for high-value dairy ingredients and pending CUSMA ratification have prompted the industry to work collaboratively to reach a solution for continued industry growth and long-term sustainability.

Vitalus has been part of the solution dialogue for the past two years. We strove to find the best solution for the projected excess solids-not-fat, specifically in western Canada, not just looking at the short term but looking at a plan that will help for the next 10-plus years.

We took into consideration the need for a staged volume increase in milk production to meet the needs of the Canadian market for butterfat. We also reviewed the geographical and environmental implications, as well as the handling of the by-products. Dairy producers and processors in western Canada are poised to invest in a long-term solution to address all the previously mentioned issues. However, we require tangible commitments from government to proceed.

We are specifically requesting that CUSMA not come into force until August 1, 2020. This will provide the industry additional time to implement the significant changes required to deal with the declining export volume caps placed on dairy. It will also provide the necessary time for Vitalus to develop additional milk protein isolate markets, products that are not subject to the export caps and tax.

We also require prioritization of export allocation volumes within the export volume caps to milk protein concentrates. By prioritizing milk protein concentrates, we will be able to make the additional capital investments required to convert skim milk powder and milk protein concentrate production over a sufficient period of time into milk protein isolates, which as mentioned previously, are not subject to export restrictions.

Our stakeholders will require assurances that the ramifications to the dairy sector have been addressed by this government, that promised compensation dollars to processors for all recent trade deals have been finalized and that it will defend our industry going forward.

Lastly, I want to emphasize that this made-in-Canada solution benefits the entire dairy industry and will contribute to Canada's prosperity by safeguarding current and future investments, jobs and the growth of Canada's dairy processing sector from the negative impacts of CUSMA.

Thank you for allowing me the time to present to you, and I welcome any questions you may have.

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much, Mr. Vanderpol.

We'll go by video conference now to the Canadian Global Affairs Institute and Mr. Robertson.

You're in a much warmer place than Ottawa today.

10:10 a.m.

Colin Robertson Vice-President and Fellow, Canadian Global Affairs Institute

That's true.

Chair, my remarks draw from my previous experience as a foreign service officer serving on the team that negotiated the Canada-United States Free Trade Agreement and the NAFTA, on my postings in New York, as consul general in Los Angeles, as first head of the advocacy secretariat at our Washington embassy and, more recently, as a member of the trade advisory committee to the deputy minister of international trade.

I encourage members to pass the legislation implementing the Canada-U.S.-Mexico agreement. Trade agreements are like riding a bicycle: Keep cycling and when you hit bumps make adjustments as necessary, but keep cycling. CUSMA is the best possible agreement under the circumstances. It's not perfect, but for Canada it both preserves access to our largest market and preserves the North American platform incorporating Mexico.

The Canada-Mexico story gets scant attention but it's the hidden treasure of the NAFTA story. Mexico is now our third-largest trading partner and, as we witnessed, a valuable partner and ally in recent trade negotiations with the Trump administration with not just the new NAFTA, but in reversing U.S. protectionism through country of origin labelling.

The new agreement is not perfect. lt is freer trade not free trade, but consider where we started. President Trump claimed it was the worst deal ever negotiated. Commerce secretary Wilbur Ross said it was for Mexico and Canada to give, and the United States to get. The Trump administration thought they had us over a barrel because we, Mexico and Canada, were much more dependent on the U.S. than they were on us. We each account for close to 18% of U.S. exports, while for us the U.S. takes almost 75% of our exports. For Mexico, it's about 80%.

Trade generates two-thirds of our GDP, making us the 12th-largest export economy in the world. For the U.S., trade represents just 27% of its GDP. Mr. Trump well understood these asymmetries.

Despite these disadvantages, we updated the NAFTA with new chapters on digital trade, intellectual property, labour and the environment while keeping dispute settlement and supply management. At the same time we managed to drown investor-state provisions. The unjust steel and aluminum tariffs are gone. Our auto trade is managed trade. It's a bit like that of softwood lumber, but we should be able to manage this to support jobs and more investment.

Thanks to the Democrats in the House of Representatives, our gives on patent protection for biologic drugs that would have raised health care costs for provinces were rolled back. The Democrats also secured better enforcement on environmental and labour provisions, all of which we had sought in the negotiations.

ln short, we have a high-quality North American trade agreement, something we sought to obtain through the trans Pacific partnership. lnstead, we now have an up-to-date Canada-U.S.-Mexico agreement with the advantage over the U.S. in trans-Pacific and trans-Atlantic markets through CPTPP and CETA.

This leads me to my recommendations. First, CUSMA is the result of an all-of-Canada effort involving the Prime Minister, ministers, premiers, parliamentarians and legislators, business and labour leaders all working with their American counterparts with complementary messages and purpose. This work must continue and become a permanent campaign. American protectionism is older than the republic, and it will continue no matter who is president. We need trade diversification, yes, but we cannot change geography. That geography gives us access to the biggest and most innovative market in the world.

Working Capitol Hill daily from my embassy, and through my experience at my consulates, I learned that just as all politics is local so is all trade. While we can't make donations to campaigns, we can illustrate the jobs that Canadian trade and investment create by district and by state. We need to keep this data current. Importantly, you as parliamentarians need to keep reminding Americans of these facts, and do this through regular meetings with U.S. legislators—local, state and federal.

There are lots of opportunities, and not just the Canada-U.S. Inter-Parliamentary Group but regional conferences of state and national legislators, important forums like PNWER and NASCO, as well as the sectoral industry and farm group meetings. First, you need to be there to develop relationships and to make the case for Canada. Use your travel points to go to Washington, and I encourage you to adjust the rules for travel throughout the United States. As you will appreciate, nothing is better than a meeting on your home turf.

Second, with the trade agreement in place there is still unfinished business when it comes to regulation and infrastructure. The thicket of national, provincial and local regulations and standards needs to be harmonized or made complementary. CUSMA helps, but we're also working on, through separate initiatives launched by the Harper government and Obama administration, regulatory co-operation and beyond the border. These have been continued by the Trudeau government and the Trump administration. They continue, but after the initial burst of enthusiasm, I'm afraid they're now buried within our bureaucracies. Progress requires political oversight by this committee, including hearings to identify the roadblocks, raise consciousness and keep government noses to the grindstone. Your constituents will thank you.

People and trade pass through our border points, as well as roads, rail, hydro and pipelines, bridges and tunnels, airports and rail stations. They need improvement. Too often they are choke points that hamper passage and productivity. Canada has an infrastructure program, but is it moving fast enough? This should be an area of close collaboration by all levels of government. Again, parliamentary oversight of the progress is essential. The U.S. administration and Congress are already talking about a trillion-dollar infrastructure program. We need to ensure it is complementary to our efforts, and because procurement is not part of CUSMA, leave it to governors and premiers to work out a procurement agreement as we did in 2010.

Harvard's Belfer Center points out that North America is the next great emerging market, possessing abundant energy, a skilled workforce, technology and a big market. However, we need infrastructure.

Meanwhile, we enjoy first-mover advantage of the U.S. with the European Union and CPTPP nations, but only if we seize these opportunities. Our competitiveness depends on our ability to get goods quickly to market, whether in North America or across our oceans.

Third, we need to know more about North America, especially the United States. Diversification is a laudable goal, but for Canada, when it comes to trade and security, it will always be the United States and then the rest. Anyone in business will tell you market intelligence is essential, whether you are buying or selling. For example, how many of you can tell your constituents how many of their jobs depend on U.S. investment and trade? We can do it for the U.S., and the Business Council of Canada has created an interactive map that can pinpoint jobs by congressional district and state. Why don't we have one for Canadian constituencies, and why not include TPP and CETA? People understand why trade matters to them.

Given our propinquity and innate understanding of the United States, why aren't we turning this to our advantage? How many serious centres for the study of the U.S. are there in Canada? How many Canada research chairs focus on the United States and our trade? You will be disappointed in the answer.

I encourage you as parliamentarians to pass CUSMA. I encourage you to press for investments that serve our national interest.

In conclusion, we always need to keep in mind that Canada's influence in the world is measured to a large extent by our understanding of the United States. By using our knowledge and relationships with Americans, our ability to leverage our influence in Washington and state capitals makes us a more desirable partner with the rest of the world, because they also have to do business with our often-complicated neighbour.

Thank you, Chair.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much, Mr. Robertson.

We'll go on to Mr. Balisky and Tracey Gorski.

10:20 a.m.

Al Balisky President and Chief Executive Officer, MLTC Resource Development LP

Thank you, Madam Chair and committee members.

We are in Meadow Lake, Saskatchewan, this morning. We are going to be representing the softwood lumber lack-of-agreement, as well as indigenous producers of forest products.

We represent the Meadow Lake Tribal Council, located in northwest Saskatchewan. We're the only major 100% indigenous-owned softwood lumber producer in Canada—that is NorSask Forest Products—and we have significant exports to the United States.

We recognize the current agreement. Of course, softwood lumber is not part of that agreement, but today we are making a representation that we cannot be forgotten in this process. We are uniquely important. MLTC's ownership and successful operation of a 150-million board foot sawmill, which is about a medium-sized sawmill in a Canadian context, with annual revenues of approximately $60 million, for over 22 years has been a wildly heralded benchmark of successful indigenous forestry and forest product manufacturing in Canada and internationally.

NorSask is a survivor. We weathered the multi-year U.S. housing market collapse in the mid-2000s. It is the only sawmill in Saskatchewan and through much of Canada that did not shut down during the period of 2007 to 2012.

We are continuing to be impacted by punitive U.S. tariffs. This successful forestry icon of stable indigenous economic development continues to be threatened by the effects of ongoing trade tariffs imposed by the U.S. on Canadian softwood lumber, which commenced in December 2017 at a rate of 20.23%. We encourage the federal government to continue support of the indigenous forest product manufacturing industry in Canada, and we recognize that the federal government does have a constitutional mandate to protect and enhance the economic well-being of indigenous peoples.

Prime Minister Trudeau has indicated that no relationship is more important to him and to Canada than the one with indigenous peoples, and that it is time for a renewed, nation-to-nation relationship based on a recognition of rights, respect, co-operation, and partnership. Of course, this should include support of aboriginal or indigenous ownership of businesses such as NorSask.

The federal government is uniquely responsible. It is the agent responsible for resolving lumber wars and negotiating the deals of managed softwood lumber agreement outcomes on behalf of Canada. The Canada-U.S. lumber trade arena is dominated and influenced by the interests of the largest lumber producers in Canada. Of course, in the last few years, most of these large lumber producers have strategically expanded operations into the U.S. south. Independent indigenous lumber producers wholly based in Canada, such as ourselves, end up as collateral damage and are significantly disadvantaged in these trade wars.

On November 25, 2016, the U.S. Lumber Coalition filed a petition asking the U.S. Department of Commerce to investigate Canadian softwood lumber shipments with the intent of levying punitive duties and taxes, and in December 2017, this was implemented.

The parliamentary Standing Committee on International Trade in 2016 recognized in its consultations regarding negotiations around softwood lumber with the United States that they should include stakeholders that may have been overlooked in the past, especially aboriginal stakeholders and small producers.

It is our view that indigenous-owned lumber producers and exporters are disproportionately impacted by any trade action related to softwood lumber. Small indigenous lumber producers require special consideration and protection from this trade action.

Briefly, I will provide a few statistics on NorSask. We're 100% indigenous-owned. We're located in Meadow Lake, Saskatchewan. The shareholder is the Meadow Lake Tribal Council, representing nine first nations with a population of about 13,000 members. It's been 30 years of progressive ownership and economic growth in the forestry sector. We produce 150 million board feet of premium softwood lumber each year. Seventy per cent of this is exported to well-established customers in the midwestern United States. Our fibre source is fully certified to the highest standards in Canada and internationally, including those of the Forest Stewardship Council. We are a globally recognized model of a sustainable, indigenous-owned forestry enterprise.

I would like to say a few words on employment. Indigenous employment in Saskatchewan in the forestry sector is the highest in Canada at 30%, and in northwest Saskatchewan the percentage is 65%. This is a tremendous contribution to the local economy. We may be small in a Canadian context, but we are very significant regionally. In terms of a model of good outcomes, in terms of indigenous forestry, we're the high point in the Canadian landscape.

Here is a quote from Shane Vermette, our executive director of the Ministry of Energy and Resources in Saskatchewan. He said, “Saskatchewan leads Canada, and MLTC leads Saskatchewan, by far when it comes to lndigenous forestry business development, lndigenous employment in the forestry sector, and percent of annual allowable cut allocated to lndigenous businesses.”

Our markets are into the U.S. We are landlocked. We have very limited opportunity to get offshore, so the U.S. market is critical for us. We reiterate the need for a managed outcome to the current trade dispute.

Some of the issues I'd like to highlight are that the current U.S. trade action has been miserable for indigenous lumber producers. Despite weathering prior softwood lumber wars, and in particular the housing crash, the current softwood lumber trade action by the U.S. and imposed tariff regime has produced significant hardship for NorSask Forest Products. NorSask has made deposits related to these countervail and anti-dumping duties of approximately $11 million in the last three years. It is our desire that these funds be returned in their entirety to the Meadow Lake Tribal Council as soon as possible.

Our mid-continent location limits access to offshore markets. Saskatchewan is far from the Asian markets and we cannot compete with the Alberta and B.C. lumber producers with respect to these markets. NorSask needs ongoing unfettered access to its U.S. lumber customer base to maintain operations.

The other issue is the small volume of lumber exported to the U.S. from indigenous-owned lumber manufacturing facilities in Canada is clearly not a threat to the U.S. lumber producers and is not the cause of the current softwood lumber dispute. Indigenous lumber producers cannot be collateral damage in a dispute aimed at the larger producers in Canada, who incidentally have also managed to mitigate their situation by purchasing sawmills in the U.S. south.

Indigenous lumber producers generally are standalone enterprises that lack geographic diversity, business diversification into pulp, paper and other products, and market options enjoyed by our larger competitors and peers. NorSask, as an example of the sustained successful outcome of indigenous business development in the forestry sector, has required decades of thoughtful nurture and incubation, and this successful investment in economic development cannot be lost due to these trade actions.

For example, NorSask represents one half of 1% of Canada's lumber exports to the U.S. We're clearly no harm or threat, yet we're included in the same bucket that holds the rest of the producers. A solution to this would be that, in future arrangements with the U.S., indigenous lumber producers are exempt from tariffs, duties and quota limitations.

The special measures that we ask for are, first, that the federal government ensure that wholly indigenous lumber producers receive 100% of their tariff deposits back as soon as possible, which in our case is $11 million. Any profits generated from operations go directly back to the nine first nations and are used for housing and other underfunded aspects of their programs.

Second, we ask that the federal government provide accommodation to wholly indigenous-owned lumber manufacturing facilities in Canada that export to the U.S., such that they be excluded or not subject to duties, tariffs or quotas under any trade action for future softwood lumber agreements.

Last, we ask that the federal government continue to provide mechanisms for financial support to assist indigenous softwood lumber producers, so that they survive these lost revenues caused by these unfair trade actions.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

10:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much.

We'll move on to Mr. Vaillancourt.

10:30 a.m.

Claude Vaillancourt President, Association québécoise pour la taxation des transactions financières et pour l'action citoyenne, Réseau québécois sur l'intégration continentale

Good morning.

The Réseau québécois sur l'intégration continentale (RQIC) is pleased to have this opportunity to share its point of view on the Canada—United States—Mexico agreement (CUSMA). My name is Claude Vaillancourt, and I am president of the Association québécoise pour la taxation des transactions financières et pour l'action citoyenne (ATTAC-Québec). Accompanying me is Normand Pépin, union research advisor at the Centrale des syndicats démocratiques (CSD).

The RQIC has been in existence since 1985, but took its current name in 1994. It defines itself as a broad multi-sectoral coalition bringing together Quebec social organizations from labour and community groups as well as those involved in international development. RQIC member organizations represent more than one million people.

RQIC's objectives are: to propose a vision of development that respects social rights, workers' rights and human rights, and to promote democracy, participation, respect for the environment and the elimination of poverty.

In terms of CUSMA, we at RQIC can only be pleased for Canada about the chapter on foreign investment protection, the infamous chapter 11, being removed. It gave companies the right to sue states for government measures that could harm their profits, even if those measures were geared toward protecting people and the environment.

However, we are disappointed with the Canadian government's attitude in the negotiations, because removing chapter 11 was a requirement of the Trump administration, whereas Canada wanted to keep the chapter until the last moment. That chapter was nothing more than a threat to the sovereignty of states.

That is a strange attitude for a country that, of the three NAFTA members, was the one that was the most sued—41 suits out of the 85 identified under NAFTA—and whose governments had to abandon enacting any public policies for fear of being sued. The deleterious effect of this chapter is not just about the millions of dollars to be paid in the event of a conviction. It is also about the regulatory chill when governments dare not take action to protect or improve the lives of their people.

RQIC is also pleased about the removal of the energy proportionality clause, another of its long-standing concerns. This clause forced Canada to basically never decrease oil exports to the United States, which of course limited our energy sovereignty, a situation that is not good for any country.

In addition, RQIC can only celebrate the fact that the general exception for cultural products has been maintained in the new agreement. This exception ensures that cultural products will not be considered like other products in CUSMA, and it will enable Canada to put in place the necessary measures to protect our artists and their productions.

As for the environmental and labour issues, we have significant differences of opinion with Minister Freeland. While we agree that it was essential that those two issues be included in the agreement as a separate chapter rather than as side agreements with no functional enforcement mechanisms, we need more than that before we can call this agreement progressive. Minister Freeland was here a few days ago to state that CUSMA requires signatory parties to “maintain high levels of environmental protection and robust environmental governance.” What we are seeing instead is that CUSMA is not doing nearly enough to address climate change. Chapter 24 on the environment mentions some good intentions in this regard, but it remains insufficient and completely inadequate in terms of responding to the climate emergency in which we find ourselves. The words “climate change,” “warming” and “emergency” are actually absent from this chapter. There is no mention of the Paris agreement. There are no targets and no binding measures against the major polluters.

CUSMA continues to promote a type of economy based on massive exports and long routes, which favours major movements of goods and high consumption of hydrocarbons. There are no measures to support the energy transition we need. On the contrary, it will require new regulations that go against the immediate interest of some corporate polluters. Chapter 28 on “good” regulatory practices—we will come back to this later—will, in our opinion, have a deterrent effect that will place heavy constraints on governments wishing to adopt regulations to protect the environment and allow a shift to green energy.

10:35 a.m.

Normand Pépin Union Advisor, Centrale des syndicats démocratiques, Réseau québécois sur l'intégration continentale

As for labour, chapter 23, which addresses that topic, seems to us to be quite incomplete. Once again, we think there are some interesting good intentions with respect to forced labour, violence against workers, migrant workers, and discrimination in the workplace. However, implementing these measures seems very problematic to us.

Two days ago, Minister Freeland again stated that the new agreement, CUSMA, includes ambitious and enforceable labour obligations to protect workers from discrimination in the workplace, including gender-based discrimination. However, the first texts released on October 1, 2018 stated that each party is supposed to implement policies that protect workers from employment discrimination based on gender.

A few months later, the final text instead stated that each party shall implement policies that it considers appropriate to protect workers. The reference to “policies that protect workers” was changed to “policies that it considers appropriate to protect workers against employment discrimination on the basis of sex.” This protection is now left to the good judgment of each party. The worst part is that Canada has agreed to allow the United States to shield its federal agencies' existing policies from this article, even if watered down.

In addition, it is mentioned that cases of violence against workers must have an effect on trade or investment between the parties, which we find difficult to demonstrate and far too restrictive, just like the entire chapter.

CUSMA also fails to solve the problem of competition between workers, nor does it put forward concrete measures to improve their working conditions. Only the auto sector is subject to a target of a production wage rate of at least $16 U.S. per hour, which is an arbitrary choice and clearly insufficient overall.

Finally, we come to the brand new chapter 28 of the new agreement on good regulatory practices, a chapter that was completely absent from NAFTA and that Minister Freeland did not even mention last Tuesday. While the victory of NAFTA chapter 11 being removed was noted earlier, we must curb our enthusiasm in light of chapter 28. First of all, the title of the chapter is misleading, since the practices it highlights are not what they seem.

According to the CUSMA rules, the parties must make public each year a list of the regulations they plan to implement in the following year, in addition to being required to justify the need for new regulations and to make public all scientific studies and data consulted. That is not all. If the parties decide to conduct an impact assessment of the new regulations, which is strongly recommended, it should include an explanation of the need for the new regulation and the problem it is intended to address, a list of all other regulatory or non-regulatory alternatives that could be used to try to address the problem, a cost-benefit analysis of each of those different scenarios, and the reasons why the proposed solution is preferable.

It gets worse. Article 28.13 requires each party to adopt or maintain “procedures or mechanisms to conduct retrospective reviews of its regulations in order to determine whether modification or repeal is appropriate”. Article 28.14 requires the parties to provide the opportunity for any interested person to submit “to any regulatory authority of the Party written suggestions for the issuance, modification, or repeal of a regulation.” As a result, the doors are wide open for corporate lobbyists to attempt to directly influence those responsible for enforcing the regulations.

Deregulation is therefore the focus of the chapter on good regulatory practices, rather than regulation that could help to better protect the environment or the people.

Attempting to improve regulations or create new regulations will become so complicated that the only change left will be deregulation. There will be no need to be able to sue governments in this context, since discouraging governments from acting at the grassroots level is likely to prove just as effective, if not more so. We are really surprised that a Liberal government would support this type of provision, which makes any government action suspect in advance.

Thank you for listening.

10:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you all very much.

We'll move to our members' questions.

Mr. Fast.

10:35 a.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses for appearing before us to discuss what is arguably the most important economic agreement Canada has with any country around the world. With the United States being by far our largest trading partner, it's important that we get this right.

Mr. Vanderpol, thank you for attending and for sharing some of your concerns about the caps that are being placed on the export of value-added milk products, milk protein concentrates and isolates. Is it fair to say that your company is one of the world leaders in developing innovative new products for which there is a huge market in the global marketplace?

10:40 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Vitalus Nutrition

Philip Vanderpol

Yes, we're one of about half a dozen companies around the world—and the only one in Canada and North America—that produces the types of high-quality dairy ingredients that we currently produce.

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Did our Foreign Affairs minister or any of her negotiators ever consult with you directly on the caps that they ended up including in the new NAFTA?

10:40 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Vitalus Nutrition

Philip Vanderpol

No. In fact, I'm vice-chair of the Dairy Processors Association of Canada and we met with the minister two weeks prior to the first release of the text. We were assured at that time that caps would not be included in the agreement.

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Are you saying you were misled about these caps?

10:40 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Vitalus Nutrition

Philip Vanderpol

Well, we were told they would not be included.

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

They are included.

10:40 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Vitalus Nutrition

Philip Vanderpol

They are included.

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Okay. Could you tell us a little more about the impact these caps will have on your ability to export to markets around the world? It's one thing to impose caps on exports to our trading partner, the United States, but I'm not aware of any free trade agreement where Canada actually has agreed to cap its exports to markets beyond the trading partner we're negotiating with.

10:40 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Vitalus Nutrition

Philip Vanderpol

That's our understanding as well. It's unprecedented that the United States would dictate what trade we do around the world with an agreement like this, but.... What it does for Canada is that it really restricts the ability to continue to grow our market and supply our domestic markets, first of all, with the products they need.

Typically, as I mentioned, the solids-not-fat are excess, so we need to export those. Historically, we've been exporting around 70,000 metric tons. When the caps come into place, in year one that will be reduced to 55,000 tonnes, and then in year two and thereafter 35,000 tonnes. Basically, from current levels, the caps would reduce our exports by half, which is really devastating for the industry and the ability to grow going forward.

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Has anyone in the minister's office justified why they would have done this? It effectively kneecaps the industry that you play in.

10:40 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Vitalus Nutrition

Philip Vanderpol

The only response they've given us is that the alternatives were a lot worse. We are not aware of what those alternatives were, but we were told they would be worse than the caps.

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Really.

You have proposed that CUSMA not come into force until August 1, 2020. Is that correct?

10:40 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Vitalus Nutrition

Philip Vanderpol

That's correct.

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Could you explain a bit more how this would mitigate some of the impacts of these caps?