Evidence of meeting #13 for International Trade in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was students.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Carlo Dade  Director, Trade and Investment Centre, Canada West Foundation
Jan De Silva  President and Chief Executive Officer, Toronto Region Board of Trade
Leigh Smout  President, World Trade Centre Toronto, Toronto Region Board of Trade
Rhonda Lenton  President and Vice-Chancellor, York University

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair (Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber River—Black Creek, Lib.)) Liberal Judy Sgro

I call this meeting to order. This is meeting number 13 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on International Trade.

Pursuant to an order under Standing Order 108(2), the committee is meeting on its study of the government's response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Today's meeting is taking place by video conference, and the proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules to follow. Interpretation in this video conference will work very much as in a regular committee meeting. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When you are ready to speak, you can click on the microphone icon to activate your mike. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

Should any technical challenges arise—for example, in relation to interpretation or a problem with your audio—please advise me immediately. The technical team will work to resolve them. Please note that we may need to suspend during these times, as we need to ensure that all members are able to participate fully.

Happy new year to all of the committee members. It's great to see you all looking well and healthy. Hopefully your families are well and we're going to have a successful 2021 one way or another.

I'd like to welcome our witnesses now. From the Canada West Foundation, we have Carlo Dade, director of the trade and investment centre. From the Toronto Region Board of Trade, we have Jan De Silva, president and chief executive officer, and Leigh Smout, president, World Trade Centre Toronto. From York University we have Rhonda Lenton, president and vice-chancellor.

Welcome to you all. We're very happy to have you with us today and we appreciate your time.

We'd like to start with Carlo Dade, for Canada West Foundation.

You need to unmute yourself, Mr. Dade.

1:05 p.m.

Carlo Dade Director, Trade and Investment Centre, Canada West Foundation

The next generation, the one- and two-year-olds, will all learn the words, “You're on mute”, before they learn “mom” and “dad”.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good afternoon, members of the committee.

I am pleased to be here again to discuss this topic of critical importance to Canada, and particularly to the west—international trade in the era of COVID-19.

Saying that this topic is important to the west in particular is not an understatement. We in the west are less than a third of Canada's population, yet we account for over 35% of the country's exports, a ratio not matched by any other region of the country. Therefore, the subject at hand has been subject to a great deal of attention, thought and research here at the Canada West Foundation.

I'd like to share two items that emerge from this research that tie to your study: What will post-COVID trade look like and what should Canada do to prepare; and on what trade agreements should the country focus? I'll also add some comments about the trade relationship with our second-largest trading partner, which is fundamentally important to the subject.

Our written testimony, of which you have a copy, also goes in depth on other subjects of your study, such as the trade commissioner service and the larger issue of support to exporters. Our trade economist, as has become a habit at Canada West, has provided a great deal of facts, figures, numbers and charts to aid in your study.

With that, let's jump into the first question: How will trade change and what should we be doing?

Trade, if you think about it, is essentially the movement of four factors of production: ideas, money, people and goods. The largest or the factor on which we spend most time is the movement of goods, and this is an area where Canada has serious problems. It is also an area that is not going to change post-COVID, and by not change I mean, yes, you will have reshoring and other attributes, but the fundamental aspect of moving goods from point A to point B is not going to change. This is an area where we have real problems in Canada.

In 2019, the World Economic Forum's ranking of perception of quality of trade and reliability of trade infrastructure saw Canada drop 22 places, from a high in 2008-09 during the Asia-Pacific gateway days to 32nd in the globe. Our customers have been telling us that we have a serious problem, yet you'd be hard pressed to see this reflected in the actions we've been taking. If we're going to export our way into COVID recovery and earn the money that we need to move on, we're going to have to address this issue.

While our competitors such as the U.K. and Australia have developed robust systems, institutions and frameworks to collect data, turn it into information and transparently use that data to make long-term project pipelines that link all the supply and production chains in the country, you see almost none of this in Canada.

The one area where we have made investments, the national trade corridors fund, was underfunded to begin with and has yet to be recapitalized. This isn't an encouraging signal for countries that are wondering if Canada can be a reliable source of exports and customers that can help us fund our way into COVID recovery, yet there's hope.

The government has set the stage for making competitiveness of trade corridors a national priority. The council of ministers of transportation, co-chaired by Alberta's Ric McIver, is working on solutions. At CWF, we're leading a national coalition, including the Business Council of Canada, the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, the Construction Association, Western Roadbuilders, Canpotex and others to take six years of research to put forward concrete policy recommendations for government.

Therefore, the stage is set on the trade infrastructure file and I would urge attention to this. If you can't move goods or if customers don't believe you can move goods, you're not going to be able to take advantage of the trade opening and the market opportunities we have. That's fundamental to everything.

On the second question, which trade agreements should we focus on, the answer is fairly straightforward. It's to focus on the agreements that we already have.

First, this means focusing on the new North American agreement. We're going to have tons of issues dealing with the U.S. administration. This was known throughout the negotiations. We're going to have to focus time, effort and resources on working with or fighting with the Americans on these issues.

The second priority would be looking at expanding the CPTTP agreement.

Look, we were very lucky to get one progressive trade agreement in Asia. Getting another agreement is going to be a bridge too far. If “progressive” is really the focus, we should put our efforts into trying to expand the one progressive agreement that exists. Additionally, going the bilateral route—doing things such as looking at a trade agreement with Indonesia—is suboptimal and potentially harmful for Canadian business.

There's a reason businesses don't use trade agreements. They're complex. There are too many rules. You have one set of rules that work only for one market. You have to change your production techniques to fit that market, and then you have another set of rules and another set of requirements for yet another market. An agreement such as the CPTPP allows you to build supply and production chains across a large group of countries, cuts the cost and reduces the risk.

Think of the small Canadian exporter who wants to export to Asia. Under the CPTPP, this company has one set of rules that it can use for six economies. It has the ability to sign one distribution agreement with one company in Singapore that can access all six markets. If you go the Indonesia route, they would have to sign an agreement with different production rules for each economy and distribution agreements for each country, and you have a mess. Really, the multilateral route is the way to go.

An exception will have to be made for the U.K.—obviously, given the size of trade—but I would note that the U.K. trade is mostly in services. We only trade one commodity—73% of our exports to the U.K. are just one commodity—and it really doesn't benefit from a trade agreement, I would argue.

Finally, here is a note on our second-largest trading partner. Trade with China has been growing 12% a year. It has grown when we've had good relations with the country and when relations have been on the rocks. Again, that's overall growth.

The issue is that day in, day out, Canadian businesses and Canadian consumers are making decisions that result in this trade increase. This results in facts on the ground that we have to manage. The government doesn't trade. Political parties don't trade. The private sector trades, and that trade is creating issues that have to be managed whether we want to deal with them or not. Not engaging China to manage this trade does nothing to help Canada, does nothing to advance our interests and will not get our hostages back sooner.

We really have to face this. If you're thinking about countries that are growing, post-COVID—countries that are already on the rebound, you're talking about China, so this will become more of an issue.

Again, look at our competitors. Australia and New Zealand are confronting China on political issues, yet they have just signed a new agreement with China. The EU is also confronting and fighting China on issues on a daily basis, yet it has just signed a trade agreement. The U.S., which is almost in a hot war with China, just stabbed us in the back—shot us in the back—when it signed its phase one trade agreement with China.

You may remember that during the NAFTA negotiations, the Americans told us not to even dare think about negotiating with China, but what were they doing? They were negotiating an agreement that basically threw Canadian farmers under the bus. We're really going to have to think, then, about balancing our interests: the political and the economic with China, and the political and the economic interests with the United States.

You know, this is not a new problem. The Diefenbaker government managed to protect Canadian interests by breaking a U.S. embargo on grain sales to China while at the same time standing shoulder to shoulder with the U.S. in fighting the Cold War. This is something our allies continue to do, but which we've forgotten to do.

With that I'll end. Actually, for the first time ever in front of the committee I'm going to end early. I would note that I'm happy to talk about the TCS, about KXL or about buy America or any of the other issues that are current.

Thank you very much.

1:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you, Mr. Dade.

We go on to Jan De Silva, president and chief executive officer of the Toronto Board of Trade.

Welcome. It's nice to see you back at committee again.

1:15 p.m.

Jan De Silva President and Chief Executive Officer, Toronto Region Board of Trade

It's nice to see you. Thanks so much.

Thank you to the committee for inviting us to speak on Canada’s international trade during and after COVID. As mentioned, I'm president and CEO of the Toronto Region Board of Trade. Joining me today is my colleague Leigh Smout, president of the World Trade Centre Toronto, the board’s trade services arm.

Our focus in our discussion with you today is on the work we are doing to activate Canadian businesses to take advantage of the trade opportunities that have been created. The Toronto Region Board of Trade represents more than 13,500 businesses in the Toronto region, 75% of which are small and medium-sized enterprises.

First, on behalf of our members, I want to thank you for your strong and responsive efforts during these incredibly challenging times. Your actions have kept hundreds of thousands of businesses afloat across the country.

At the board, we focus on solutions to help businesses thrive and grow. Pre-COVID, our World Trade Centre had a five-year track record of proven programs that have helped more than 1,200 Canadian SMEs go global. Since the pandemic, we've pivoted existing programs and launched a new program to help businesses adapt to the conditions of COVID.

I'm going to turn the mike over to Leigh to share some more.

1:20 p.m.

Leigh Smout President, World Trade Centre Toronto, Toronto Region Board of Trade

Thank you, Jan.

As the board’s trade services arm, we focus on programs and supports that help businesses scale up and access growth markets. While we develop and launch these programs in Toronto, we also work with partner chambers and world trade centres and economic development agencies and so on across Canada to make sure that these programs are delivered nationally.

We’ve created the award-winning trade accelerator program, which has helped more than 1,200 Canadian businesses become trade-ready, with proprietary export plans. Through more than 21 World Trade Centre-run business missions, we have connected hundreds of these companies to targeted customers in international markets, delivering great commercial results.

When the pandemic struck, shuttering store fronts, halting international travel and disrupting supply chains, we like others moved our programs online. Doing so included taking our trade missions virtual. Just since that time, more than 200 businesses have participated in our virtual trade accelerator programs across Canada, and more than 120 have joined virtual missions.

Moving our programs online also helped us to see that many of the SMEs we are trying to help are really, truly, lagging behind in their digital capabilities. This led us to create the recovery activation program to help businesses understand where and how to go digital. To date, more than 900 Ontario businesses have joined this program to learn how to digitize their front, middle and back offices. Let me share just a few examples of our program's impact.

Signarama from Peterborough applauds the recovery activation program for providing the practical tools and mentorship needed to address the COVID challenges to their operations. Signifi Solutions from Mississauga credits our trade accelerator program for developing their export plan and activating international contact in growth markets for their cloud-enabled vending systems. Finally, there is Greenlid from Toronto, which joined 26 other companies for a clean-tech mission to Mexico and credited the program for the opportunity to meet with qualified buyers to develop the market for their compostable kitchen greenhouse.

I'll go back to you, Jan.

1:20 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Toronto Region Board of Trade

Jan De Silva

As a country, our businesses are in the position to benefit from the federal government's commitment to diversifying trade.

I certainly agree with the comments by Mr. Dade about the need for engagement with target markets and solidifying our movement of goods capacity within the country. However, I want to echo the fact that your efforts have given us access to 1.5 billion potential customers, through 14 free trade agreements covering 51 countries. The imperative now is to get Canadian businesses to take action on those.

At a time when access to local, in-person customers is hampered by the pandemic, digital access to global customers is not. Exporting will not be a panacea to the economic challenges our businesses have withstood, but it's certainly a mighty tool. We encourage the federal government to double down on trade and on equipping our businesses to export and to be digitally ready, for digital readiness is the new price of admission for business survival and trade during the pandemic and beyond.

Companies need support to get through this challenging time, not only in the form of cash infusions, which are providing temporary relief, but also in the form of national access to the recovery activation and trade accelerator programs outlined by Leigh. These programs are making our businesses resilient through COVID, and positioning them to access growth markets, which will also position them to scale up in recovery.

In closing, thank you again for your investments and partnerships with us. Together we're the helping hand that many businesses need in this difficult period.

1:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you both very much.

I want to welcome Rhonda Lenton from York University.

It's great to see you.

1:20 p.m.

Dr. Rhonda Lenton President and Vice-Chancellor, York University

It's great to see you as well.

Madam Chair, distinguished members, thank you for the opportunity to be here today to speak with you about the university sector in the context of international trade.

I could speak with you about what universities are doing in terms of research, including research on the movement of goods, and what we're doing in terms of supporting innovation, start-ups and scale-up. However, I wanted to come to talk to you today about the importance of increasing supports for international education as a means of strengthening Canada's economy in a post-pandemic context.

International education has grown significantly in the last 10 years, and it has the potential to be one of the top Canadian exports, if this level of growth continues. Currently, international students contribute more than $21 billion to the Canadian economy every year.

To begin, I feel I should note that while I am here as a representative of York University, it's fair to say that the challenges and opportunities I will speak about are relevant for the broader Canadian university sector. As a point of reference, York University is consistently in the top three to five Canadian institutions for international education and is home to more than 8,500 of Canada’s 200,000-plus international undergraduate and graduate students.

International education supports multiple goals and gaps in Canada’s foreign policy, including helping to fulfill the need for skilled immigration, counteracting the effects of an aging society on our economy and advancing diplomacy. In addition, international students are a crucial part of Canada’s research, innovation and entrepreneurship ecosystem. International graduate students in particular contribute to the backbone of our research enterprise.

Also, of course, international graduates and researchers who decide to return to their home countries provide important business and research networks for the future and become lifelong ambassadors for Canada and Canadian values.

In the face of the COVID-19 pandemic, Canadian universities have experienced significant declines in international student enrolment. After five years of experiencing, on average, 10% growth in international student enrolment, international enrolment was down 2% across Canada this year. Fifty-one Canadian universities experienced a decline in the number of international students as compared with last year. Of these, 26 saw a decline of more than 10% and 14 saw a decline of more than 20%.

We recognize and appreciate the many ways in which the federal government has supported international education since the beginning of the pandemic, including making policy changes that allowed online study for international students, granting border exemptions that enabled students to come to Canada, providing comprehensive support packages and making significant investments in research funding.

We also appreciate the federal government’s recognition of international education as an essential pillar of Canada’s long-term competitiveness, its commitment to supporting international education through the release of the 2019 international education strategy and its corresponding efforts to diversify the education sector, boost Canada’s innovation capacity, promote global ties and foster a vibrant Canadian economy.

Despite these efforts, however, York and other Canadian universities continue to face significant recruitment and retention challenges. I would like to highlight four areas for attention.

Regarding permit processing times, wait times have averaged as long as 35 to 44 weeks for key international markets, and visa processing continues to be the least competitive aspect of Canada’s international education brand.

There's a need for a more sophisticated, data-driven market intelligence and a comprehensive marketing strategy to position Canada as a preferred destination for international students. Our marketing is currently being conducted piecemeal at the institutional, provincial and national levels, but we need a coordinated national approach to maximize impact and reach.

We also have an overreliance on key markets. We currently rely heavily on the core international markets for the majority of our international recruitment. We must diversify our market development approach to ensure that Canada has a stronger presence in regions that are likely to become more competitive in the coming years, such as the ASEAN countries, Colombia, Senegal and Morocco.

Finally, the disjointed and heavily bureaucratic system of governance for international education is an issue. Many different bodies manage the various elements of the international education process, including three federal ministries, 13 provincial and territorial ministries, and several institutions, among others. Our educational strategies and activities are not aligned, resulting in students receiving mixed messages.

I have a request. In order to overcome these challenges and continue to attract and support international students, Canadian universities urgently need an agile, streamlined and coordinated approach to educational oversight in Canada.

We would urge the federal government to create a national agency that acts as a sector-specific trade organization to align the mandates of the various federal ministries and agencies involved in international education; to coordinate Canada's international education approach; to ensure that visa processing is handled in an expeditious manner; to create talent-luring programs to enhance Canada’s competitive advantage and make it a more attractive destination for international students; to collect and distribute data-driven market intelligence; and to promote Canada as a leading destination for higher education.

This last is a particularly urgent need, as we currently have a short window of opportunity before the new political administration in the U.S. amends its immigration policies to make America a more attractive destination for international students.

The proposed agency needs also to develop relationships with priority markets. In particular, we would recommend the completion of a trade agreement with the ASEAN countries.

One excellent model for the type of national body I have described is the Australian Trade and Investment Commission, the international trade promotion and investment attraction agency responsible for aligning Australia’s import, export, investment, tourism and education strategies. Its mandate includes generating market information and insights, promoting Australian capability and facilitating connections through its extensive global network.

The goals of international education strategy and trade are interconnected. Both focus on attracting new talent to the country, boosting our innovation capacity, promoting global ties and fostering a vibrant Canadian economy.

Increasing federal support for international education will help make Canada a more attractive destination for international students and provide Canadian universities with the foundation they need to remain competitive in the global economy throughout the pandemic recovery period and beyond.

Thank you for the opportunity to appear before the committee today. I look forward to any questions you may have.

1:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much, Ms. Lenton. We're pleased to have you with us.

We'll go on to committee members.

Mr. Hoback, take six minutes, please.

1:30 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Thank you, Chair. It's great to see everybody here in January in the new year 2021.

I want to start off with Mr. Dade.

Mr. Dade, last year, from talking to a lot of different people around the world, we were starting to see alliances formed from country to country regarding trade to make sure that they had supplies, whether PPE or core elements to go into some of their manufacturing. There was a rejigging and talk of rejigging to get rid of the reliance on one country as a sole supplier of certain componentry and things such as that.

How do you see that happening now? Do you see this as a structural change, or is it just talk and a fad?

1:30 p.m.

Director, Trade and Investment Centre, Canada West Foundation

Carlo Dade

You're absolutely right in the analysis of what's happening. We saw similar movements with past pandemics. There is, for instance—something we don't discuss—a North American pandemic agreement, yet the measures we've taken in the past in such agreements really, in the light of performance in the current pandemic, don't appear to have been too effective.

Have we finally learned the lesson? Are we taking this seriously? Are we going to go back to the first round of agreements we did to try to make them work?

On that note, I would caution the committee that our relations with the U.S. and ideas for a North American supply and production chain for critical pandemic response materials is in the first instance obvious and necessary, but in the second requires caution. Donald Trump wasn't the first president to threaten pandemic supplies to Canada. If you go back to Gerald Ford, you may remember that with swine flu, Gerald Ford threatened the same thing.

As we look to these agreements, we need to make sure that we cover our backs, that we have a plan B. Economies such as Taiwan's and Korea's are good sources.

1:30 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

That's a good point.

In those conversations—and this goes on to our university students—what I'm hearing is that a lot of countries are relooking at their university and foreign student programs and saying, “Why are we training all of these foreign students, giving away our research and my research and development dollars—our tax dollars—and then letting them go home?” Why aren't we attracting these students and not only attracting them but trying to keep them here in Canada so that they develop that research, use that research and take it to commercialization here in Canada, instead of its going back to somewhere in Asia or somewhere else around the world?

Do you think we need to rethink our university policies, Ms. Lenton, in regard to that and maybe tie them in more closely to our immigration policies to make sure that we don't go about training our competitors?

1:35 p.m.

Director, Trade and Investment Centre, Canada West Foundation

Carlo Dade

I would suggest doing something nuanced rather than doing a wholesale re-evaluation. When students go back—

1:35 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

I was speaking to Ms. Lenton, Mr. Dade.

1:35 p.m.

Director, Trade and Investment Centre, Canada West Foundation

Carlo Dade

I'm sorry.

1:35 p.m.

President and Vice-Chancellor, York University

Dr. Rhonda Lenton

That's okay. I was interested in hearing what answer you may have.

I think it's incredibly important to always remember what a significant source for immigration our international students are. Our three-year work permit after graduation has been very popular. It's been an incredibly attractive feature of our higher education policy, and a great number of these students stay. These are students who have stronger English, students who have relevant university credentials and who often have work placement experience by the time they graduate, so they are a tremendous source.

Even though there are students who go back home, those students act as our ambassadors and they help us establish networks of innovation and networks of research across the world. I think if we've learned anything from the pandemic, it's just exactly how small the world is and how important it is for us to build and establish those kinds of international collaborations through which we are working together on these major global issues.

1:35 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Fair enough. I think we require some study for sure and some relooking at that. I think we need to find a new way of doing this and of taking advantage of those types of things.

1:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you, Mr. Hoback. I'm sorry but your six minutes is up. I was stretching it out for you to give you your maximum minutes there.

We go now to Mr. Sarai.

1:35 p.m.

Liberal

Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the speakers. It's always insightful to get insight on the ground and find out what's going on.

My question is for Ms. Lenton from York. Students are not only important to the universities they attend but are also an important part of their community's economy. You've already mentioned specifically how international students affect the economy, but small and medium-sized businesses rely on students for their businesses or as employees, especially in smaller communities. They have most likely seen a dramatic impact in this area.

What have been your university's experience and challenges with COVID-19 and how do you see the way you operate changing post-pandemic? Going forward, what might some of the implications for local economies be as a result of possibly not having as many students attending university in person, at least for the next little while?

1:35 p.m.

President and Vice-Chancellor, York University

Dr. Rhonda Lenton

I want to say that it's been incredibly important that we transitioned all of our programming predominantly to online so that we have been able to actually ensure that our students are able to continue in their programs.

The decision by students to attend university was hugely aided by the federal program to provide financial support for students. For a university like York, for example, where two-thirds of the students work part time to put themselves through school, the fact that the program was rolled out ended up increasing the number of students that we have. We're 4% over our contract targets, and this is incredibly important because our local businesses rely on the future talent that we are bringing forward—and in fact, we're developing programming very much in step with emerging needs. We're also developing new programming that's dealing with the fact that AI and automation are impacting about 50% of all jobs. We really have to be providing the new future talent that is needed.

It would have been incredibly challenging if we had seen significant decline. It comes back again to the international students, because domestically, I think we've done quite well with what has been done by the federal government. It's finding ways to make sure that we continue to attract that international student base, because in some areas especially they are an incredibly important source of students and future employees.

1:35 p.m.

Liberal

Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC

Further to that, we have a lot of international students here in Surrey and many go to Simon Fraser or other colleges, such as Kwantlen Polytech and other post-graduate programs out here, but my concern is that a lot of them seem to be getting into programs that perhaps are not really what they want to be doing or what they will be doing. I like your idea of getting some sort of an agency to guide them so that they make career choices or study in a field that will be needed in Canada and they will actually get jobs in their sector.

What's the quickest way to do that, other than by having a very large overbody? What would be the best way to get these students to apply and be in programs that are actually needed for the workplace here? How can universities play that role?

1:40 p.m.

President and Vice-Chancellor, York University

Dr. Rhonda Lenton

I want to say that we are already playing that role and, to some extent, we're playing that role because the students want additional information about what the emerging career paths are. They are very market savvy in terms of wanting to ensure not only that they get an education and get those transferable skills but also that they know how those are going to connect. A very important piece of that has been an expansion in the rollout of experiential education and work-integrated learning.

This is one of the best ways to directly align the kinds of programs that students are choosing and the way those actually relate to their career interests. Supports, both provincially and federally, through work-integrated learning programs have been incredibly important in terms of our ability to actually expand that.

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC

Thank you.

This is for the Toronto Region Board of Trade. You have seen a lot of changes in the last 10 months that have accelerated change in how businesses conduct business. Some that have come to the forefront, such as home deliveries by grocers and online shopping, have accelerated plans that were in place to change things in five years, down to changing them within months. They've had to cope with that.

How have the board and its members been responding to this accelerated change resulting from the COVID pandemic?

1:40 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Toronto Region Board of Trade

Jan De Silva

I'm going to let Leigh take that because Leigh runs our recovery activation program, which was developed in May for specifically the conditions you're discussing.

1:40 p.m.

President, World Trade Centre Toronto, Toronto Region Board of Trade

Leigh Smout

In answer to the member's question, we've had a very interesting experience working with businesses of every size in Toronto. Small and medium-sized businesses have struggled in all the ways you can imagine. You mentioned streetside shopping and so on, and to that end, there have been a lot of programs put in place to help them build their e-commerce software and to build sites on which they can sell.

The challenge is not just for those main street organizations, not just for the local professional services and the store that you can walk to. They're also for small manufacturers, some of the companies that are maybe not so visible. They've not sitting there on the main street, but they're often in neighbourhoods, industrial neighbourhoods and so on. They were losing supply chains, as Mr. Dade mentioned earlier. Supply chains are disrupted. They suddenly had a workforce, some of which had to be in-shop to manage their process while others were able to work from home, including their sales teams and so on. They need new sales programs because they're used to going to trade shows, and suddenly they can't go to trade shows to sell anymore. Any future sales program that was going to take them through a longer recovery was really disrupted.

We've been able to—