International Trade Committee on April 30th, 2021

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam Chair, I will share my time with Mr. Sarai, my next-door neighbour and my younger brother.

Your Excellency Ambassador, you talked about production and equitable distribution. It's my understanding that Canada is actively working with international partners to support the WTO director-general's third way approach.

Could you please tell us more about Canada's advocacy in enhancing the WTO's role in global dialogue with the pharmaceutical sector to escalate equitable global vaccine production and distribution?

[Stephen de Boer]

Let me say at the outset that what the director-general is doing is quite novel from a WTO perspective. She's stepping a little bit out of what is seen as the traditional role of the director-general of the World Trade Organization.

The first thing Canada did when she announced that she wanted to do this and have discussions with industry, stakeholders and international financial institutions was to issue a communication to the general council along with some other countries to support her in this and to give her some policy cover for her to take these discussions forward.

She has had two series of discussions and Canada participated in the second set, where there was a series of interactions with developed and developing country vaccine producers, and also with the IFIs and some politicians from the United States, the EU and others.

It was meant to facilitate this dialogue. Canada is actively promoting this dialogue to examine what the problems are and to move as quickly as possible on vaccines.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Madam Chair, I will give it to Mr. Sarai, and then I will come back if I have time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Go ahead, Mr. Sarai, please.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My simple question is this. I spoke with—and I'm sure other members might have had a call from—Dr. Christian Burgsmüller, the deputy head of the mission. I spoke to them and asked them questions in regard to the vaccination. My understanding in terms of the exemptions was that there were 620 requested globally from the European Union for vaccinations. Apparently, every one was approved except for one.

Is that what your understanding is as well, Mr. de Boer, Your Excellency?

[Stephen de Boer]

That is my understanding as well.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

My understanding by my conversation with them is that their intention was not to block, but to make sure that, when production delays were occurring at the vaccination sites, a similar amount of reduction was done for global exports as it would be done for their domestic European Union supply so that the European Union was not unfairly prejudiced by contracts abroad. That was their intention, not to physically block out other countries. In fact, the one that was refused was a European distributor, not anybody internationally that had commitments signed.

Is that what you heard as well, Your Excellency?

[Stephen de Boer]

That is what I heard, but I want to underscore for you that I am not privy to all of those conversations. I have heard the same. I don't know for a fact that it's actually what happened.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Last, quickly, my understanding of TRIPS, from all the testimony we've heard, is that regardless of whether or not a TRIPS waiver occurs, the actual ability to make a vaccine is a lot more complicated than just releasing patents and allowing these countries to make it. It requires a lot of ingredients, facilities and faculties.

Is it your understanding when you speak to your counterparts that making the vaccine more available to low-income or third world countries that need it, through agreements like the ones we've had before, is a better source of our attention rather than pondering only this as time flies by? Even if it were to be done, to actually organize and build capacity would be difficult for some of those marginalized countries.

[Stephen de Boer]

There is a sense amongst some that it is simply a question of a recipe, and we know that not to be the case. These are biologics. They're highly complex. They have over 200 ingredients. There's a technical expertise that's required in their manufacturing, so this is one of the issues we have when we think about the waiver. You cannot reverse-engineer a biologic. You can't simply take the vaccine and say, “Well, I know how this was made”, and replicate that easily. In fact, it would be next to impossible.

It is absolutely true, as you point out, that there is a serious problem around the production of vaccines. We need an enormous number of vaccines, and we have to ramp up the production as quickly as possible. It's not clear that the waiver is the way that will be done, but I say “not clear”. We do not have an opinion, necessarily, but we're examining that.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you.

That's all, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Ambassador.

Witnesses, we very much appreciate the valuable information today.

I will excuse our witnesses.

Members, we all need to close down. We need to leave the site we're on and come back in with a different password and virtual site. Everybody please exit and enter as quickly as you can.

Thank you.

[Proceedings continue in camera]