Evidence of meeting #36 for International Trade in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was negotiations.
A recording is available from Parliament.
2:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
I'm sorry, Mr. Arya, but your time is up.
We will go on to Ms. Gray for five minutes, please.
2:10 p.m.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you Madam Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for being here. It's good to see you again, Mr. Forsyth.
As my first question, if Bill C-216 is adopted, could this potentially have a negative effect on supply-managed sectors, in your opinion?
2:10 p.m.
Director General, Market Access, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Would it have a negative effect on supply-managed producers? I can't think of one off the top of my head, but maybe I'll ask if my colleagues from Agriculture can think of any.
2:10 p.m.
Chief Agriculture Negotiator and Director General, Trade Agreements and Negotiations, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
I can't think of any obvious immediate negative impacts from the legislation on the supply-managed sectors.
2:10 p.m.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Is there risk for beef and pork export if we adopt this bill, a risk with restraining exports?
2:10 p.m.
Director General, Market Access, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
As I mentioned in some of my opening remarks and in answers to other questions, I think it is quite probable that this would have an impact on some of our export sectors. In any negotiation, other countries will be looking to shrink the negotiating pie, as it were. They would look at key export areas of Canada and look to take them off the table as well.
From a negotiator's point of view, I think that would make sense. Whether they would do it or not, I don't know, but I think it is quite likely. Those are key export sectors of ours, and a trading partner would look at those with great interest.
2:15 p.m.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you.
I want to ask you this because of your experience negotiating the Canada-UK Trade Continuity Agreement last year.
Despite the U.K. being a large exporter of cheese worldwide, the negotiators were able to ensure no new market access to supply-managed sectors in this agreement. What is the process that the negotiators go through in order to prevent this from happening? I think you touched on it a little bit today, but is there anything else you want to add?
2:15 p.m.
Director General, Market Access, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I'll highlight a few of the issues.
It very much starts with our looking at the world for our offensive and defensive interests in any negotiation. We look at where we are, what sectors we'd like to protect, what sectors we have to protect. Those are the issues that would go into our cabinet mandate. There are recommendations to the minister, and they would be elaborated on in a cabinet mandate.
The Canada-U.K. agreement, as I mentioned a couple of times, was certainly part and parcel of the constraints that the negotiating team faced and that I faced as chief negotiator. As you know, it was well respected throughout the negotiating process, and we were able to achieve an outcome that fully respected the policies of the supply-managed system.
2:15 p.m.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Okay. Thank you very much.
We heard today from High Commissioner Goodale that it looks like the agreement between Canada and the U.K. will be accelerated, although U.K. Prime Minister Johnson told CBC a few weeks ago that he wants to see access for U.K. cheese in the Canadian market.
What action has the government directed you or our department to take on this issue?
2:15 p.m.
Director General, Market Access, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I think we have not yet launched the bilateral negotiations between Canada and the U.K. We finished our consultations earlier in May. My understanding is that the U.K. is currently undergoing their consultations. We anticipate that they will be finished early in the summer.
We will—
2:15 p.m.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Have you been advised if you're going to be the chief negotiator? I'm sorry for interrupting.
2:15 p.m.
Director General, Market Access, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I have not been advised of that. We will see.
We will put forward a mandate to government late in the summer or early in the fall, and then we will follow the tabling of treaty process as we move forward and provide the—
2:15 p.m.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
If I could just squeeze this in, would royal assent for Bill C-216 be helpful to you in the success of our negotiations with the U.K. to protect Canadian supply-managed sectors, or would you say that it will make no difference in the prioritization of protecting it?
2:15 p.m.
Director General, Market Access, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Thank you for the question.
I don't think it will make any difference in the sense of prioritizing it. It may make it more difficult once the U.K. government sees that [Technical difficulty—Editor] issues are and they would [Technical difficulty—Editor]
2:15 p.m.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
On a point of order, Madam Chair.
The interpreters are signalling that there is a problem.
2:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Hold on, Mr. Forsyth. We seem to have a translation problem.
Mr. Forsyth, would you back up with that answer a bit and try it again, please?
2:15 p.m.
Director General, Market Access, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Okay.
The question was around whether there would be any constraints....
I'm sorry. Could you repeat the question, please?
2:15 p.m.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair, for allowing me the extra time because of the translation problem.
If Bill C-216 receives royal assent, would it be helpful to you in success in negotiations with the U.K. to protect Canadian supply-managed sectors, or would you say that it would make no difference in the prioritizing of it?
2:15 p.m.
Director General, Market Access, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
In terms of protecting supply management, I don't think it would make any difference. The mandate would not be developed yet, but I think the words from the Prime Minister, the Minister of International Trade and the Minister of Agriculture are clear that there will be no new concessions under supply management in our future trade negotiations. I can't see it making a difference, frankly.
Where it would make a difference, though—and I think this is where I got interrupted—is with respect to where the U.K. enters negotiation and their mindset and their frame of mind when they come in. If they see that we have completely taken something off the table, it is quite likely that they would look to do the same, and then we would not be operating from the same basket of issues.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you very much, Mr. Forsyth.
Mr. Hardie, you have five minutes, please.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for this opportunity.
When we talk about supply management, it brings to mind the whole issue that this is more about families, communities and the strength of sectors that historically have been the foundation of many communities in the country. It goes beyond money and markets, which is why I tend to agree with Mr. Blaikie that this is more of a political issue and not so much a technical one. It is also an issue on which we need to understand the technical implications of maintaining something that is, if you like, culturally important to Canada, because there will eventually and undoubtedly be trade-offs.
Would adopting this bill and exercising a total barrier to negotiating over supply management basically shut the door to other countries in a very large way in our potential trade agreements?
Mr. Forsyth, maybe you could answer that.
2:20 p.m.
Director General, Market Access, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Maybe I'll start, and my colleague from agriculture might have something to add. I'm happy to start.
As I said, I think that during a negotiation we would like to start with a full basket of issues on the table. Would taking them off the table right up front impact our negotiating leverage? Would it impact the interest that a trading partner has in Canada? As I've said a couple of times, I think it probably would.
I think that if we were able to launch negotiations and then if we were able to come to an agreement, it would be—
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
If I could, Mr. Forsyth, I have other questions, and I know this is not an easy answer or a short one. Basically, then, it's safe to say that this just limits our range of movement if we take something off the table. Is that basically it?
2:20 p.m.
Director General, Market Access, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Yes, I think that's fair to say.