Evidence of meeting #8 for International Trade in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ceta.
A recording is available from Parliament.
2 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Thank you very much.
I want to begin with the process for ratification and what that might look like.
I've heard loud and clear from all of our witnesses that you'd like to see a speedy ratification. We were reminded earlier this week at committee that while negotiations have concluded, the deal itself isn't signed yet, and that there's still some hammering out of the final details. We've been told that could take two to four weeks.
Then, of course, enabling legislation has to be tabled after that, and depending on the outcomes of the legal scrubbing, there may be some modifications that have to made to whatever draft may already exist, although we understand there is no draft that is complete.
The House is set to rise on December 11, and we haven't heard from the government that there's any plan to extend the sitting of Parliament. What do you think the government should be doing to prepare for a situation where this transitional agreement is not in effect by December 31?
What kind of support would your members hope to see in such an eventuality? What are some of the things that could be done to mitigate the harm that might be done to Canadian exporters in the event that we don't see the deal, and its enabling legislation pass before the end of the year?
Perhaps we could start with Mr. Poirier.
2 p.m.
Director, Trade Policy, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters
There is a lot process-wise that needs to happen, obviously, between now and January 1.
In the unfortunate event that it can't be done, there are some models, and some tools out there that we've sort of run into in our dealings with the U.S. over the past few years in terms of duty remissions and drawbacks. There are mechanisms that can compensate importers and exporters that are affected, and have to pay duties all of a sudden where they don't have to today.
The problem with those, even though they get their money back, is that there's an administrative burden, obviously. To file for those you have to know they exist, that it's an option for you to begin with. Then it takes many months to get that money back. The problem with that now—it's a problem generally—is that during COVID most businesses, especially manufacturers, have a capital or cash crunch. Cash flow issues are a big problem.
Even though there are mechanisms out there, and we would be hopeful that in the event we don't have something in place by January 1, it's still problematic, given the nature of the economy right now and COVID.
2 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Has the trade minister or anyone from her office reached out to you in order to talk about what kinds of supports might be put in place, or how a no deal scenario would affect your industry?
2 p.m.
Director, Trade Policy, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters
We have ongoing conversations. We certainly bring up this point whenever we can. We were very active, for example, back during the tariff disputes over steel and aluminum. We're going back to that toolbox to say these worked, and hopefully we can improve the administration of that a bit more.
Those conversations are always ongoing, but the main goal is to avoid that altogether by rolling over on January 1 into a transitional agreement.
2 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Mr. Lansbergen, could you speak to the impact on your industry, but more particularly, what kinds of measures you and your members might like to see to mitigate any potential harm in the event that this isn't done by December 31, given that the government can't commit at this point to getting the documents tabled before the House rises?
2:05 p.m.
President, Fisheries Council of Canada
Thank you.
Mr. Poirier, I think, spoke a lot about measures that would apply to a multitude of sectors, so I think basically everything he said would also apply to fish and seafood. The part that I would perhaps add is that because our products are food, we would need to make sure that the rules associated with the export of food and the export certificates would still be accepted by the U.K. and that would mean engaging with the Canadian Food Inspection Agency to make sure that there are no additional regulatory hurdles to keeping the trade flow going.
Really, we know it's a difficult situation for parliamentarians, given that there's such a short time frame. It's kind of like everything this year has been totally thrown upside down, so we would just urge, very diplomatically, politely and respectfully that the deal be passed and be in place before January 1.
2:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you very much, Mr. Blaikie. Sorry, but your time is up.
We go to Mr. Lobb for five minutes.
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
My first question is for the Cattlemen's Association. I wonder if Mr. Sawyer or Ms. Jackson could outline when the first dialogue took place with the trade officials in regard to negotiating a Canada-U.K. trade deal.
2:05 p.m.
Chair, Foreign Trade Committee, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
Fawn, you'd have a better timeline on that than I would.
2:05 p.m.
Director, International and Government Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
I suppose our discussions started when Brexit was clearly moving forward, so for some period of time we've been saying that we need to look at what a future FTA with the U.K. could look like. Certainly there has been more consistent dialogue over the last couple of months.
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
How have those interactions typically worked between, say, you and somebody from international trade? Has the discussion been on TRQs or on the rates? Has it been on non-tariff barriers? Is the discussion a give and take, or is it just kind of “thank you for your info”?
November 27th, 2020 / 2:05 p.m.
Director, International and Government Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
We communicate on a number of the different priorities we would like to see for both a transitional agreement and a longer-term FTA. I think all the topics you covered would commonly be discussed.
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Okay, so now that we're here—last week we weren't here, but this week we are here as far as the agreement or the notice of it goes—what can the Canadian cattlemen say as a commentary on the results of that deal? Is there anything that you know inside that I wouldn't know, or that anybody here would know? How does that work? Pretty much everybody has just said, “We don't really know the details. It's a rollover.”
Is there a point at which they actually sit down and say, “Here's where we are, and here's where we think we should go”? Is there any dialogue with that?
2:05 p.m.
Director, International and Government Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
I think we are expecting the details to come out sometime soon. As you said, we have heard that it's a rollover of CETA. I guess our communication back has been that we recognize the importance of the transitional agreement in not creating a large gap in the trading relationship, but our focus is really on that long-term FTA and we encourage a very quick return.
I think everybody here knows that we have concerns about our ability to do meaningful trade with Europe, so we would not want to see that replicated in [Inaudible—Editor] an FTA.
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Do you know if the trade officials were able to gain any ground with regard to Canadian beef in which hormones had been implanted at a point in time, which was shipped to the U.K.? Is there any progress on that? I read in the U.K. news that it's going the other way, that they're pushing against any U.S. or Canadian beef with hormones. Are we making any progress on that, or are we spinning our tires?
2:05 p.m.
Director, International and Government Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
We would hope that in our future trading relationship with the U.K. they would follow international best guidelines and recommendations on the use of innovative technologies that would allow us to reduce our environmental footprint. I guess what I'm going to say is that we'll wait to see the text, but we're certainly hopeful that in future FTAs that will be dealt with.
2:10 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
I'll go quickly over to the Fisheries Council.
How did your consultations work? Do you feel like you had any consultations at all? We talked with the Lobster Council earlier this week and they had zero consultations. Were yours above zero or was it at zero as well?
2:10 p.m.
President, Fisheries Council of Canada
No, we're above zero. We're based in Ottawa, so it's much easier for us to stay engaged with various departments on issues. We had been following this, much like Fawn said for cattlemen, and as soon as we saw that Brexit was indeed going to happen, we stayed engaged with the government officials on this. We've been talking to them here and there since 2018 and are comfortable with the level of consultation we've had with the department.
2:10 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
With that, then, do you know any of the results, on behalf of your organization, that came out of this temporary deal?
2:10 p.m.
President, Fisheries Council of Canada
Well, essentially we were looking for a rollover of CETA as a transitional arrangement and this is what we have. The officials have told us that there will be virtually no change in the tariff schedules from what we're facing under CETA and how they're being scaled down. We're very comfortable with the level of detail we've been given so far.
2:10 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
I'll just make one last point, and what I'll say in regards to beef and trade is it just—
2:10 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Well, I was just going to make a statement that in regards to these trade deals, it defies logic how we have a trade deficit with the U.K. in beef and we give up so much access for other things in the hope that we'll have access and a surplus in trade for items like beef, pork and other things. To see this play out and to have a rollover, to me, is just unacceptable, but we'll see how it plays out.
Thank you.
2:10 p.m.
Liberal