Evidence of meeting #8 for International Trade in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ceta.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
Exactly.
Mr. Sawyer, we've seen that from the beef side of the things that the CETA agreement has some flaws in it. To cookie-cut it and put it over into the U.K., that's problematic for our egg sector.
Again, if this is a cookie-cutter agreement from CETA, how do we put triggers in the new year to address those issues so we don't have these problems going forward?
Chair, Foreign Trade Committee, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
Certainly, as you well know, we're hopeful that we can get some sort of a trigger point in there, because we definitely need it. We can certainly see a great expansion into the U.K. Under the CETA rules, we've been very, very limited. As I pointed out in my speech earlier, the U.K. is poised to move forward probably more than double—maybe four or five times—what we're able to put in there.
That's a real problem.
I don't what mechanisms could be put in. Perhaps Fawn has an idea on that. I hope they're in there. I really do.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
I only have five minutes, so I will have to be fairly quick here.
Again, if this doesn't happen by December 31, what kind of compensation will you require from this government? Let's face it, they dropped the ball. They screwed up. They didn't take this seriously enough, early enough, to actually get it done in an appropriate time.
What would the beef guys need for compensation? What would manufacturing need for compensation? What sectors would be identified that should actually have compensation? They are not paying for this government's mistakes.
Director, International and Government Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
Maybe I can answer that.
I think it is a challenging position that we're all in. Of course, it's not just this government's dollars; it's all of our dollars. I think we need figure out a solution.
Director, International and Government Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
It's challenging, admittedly, but I think we all have to put our oars in the water and figure out a way forward. We also have to figure out a way to come back and renegotiate a real FTA.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
Yes.
That's the problem I have. I've had those dreams before when I was a farmer. I've heard governments promise that we're going to get this done and it never gets done. I've been on this road before. I don't trust words; I need something on paper. I need something in documents. I'm trying to figure out how to do that.
I have no issue working right up to New Year's Day to get this done. I have no issue with Parliament's doing what it has to do. However, I have a hard time just putting a rubber stamp on something, letting it go through Parliament, and three years later having you come back to me and saying this was the most horrible thing we've ever done. I don't know if it's good or bad. I don't know.
How do you tell this committee to get it done? We're at a loss for abilities to do that. If we could find some solutions that would allow us some breathing room—to make sure we have some bankability and if it's not what we want, we have the chance to renegotiate it—then it is a true transitional agreement. I could maybe live with that a bit more, but I don't see or hear anything like that.
That's why I come back. What are those trigger points? What are those things that would give us that comfort, that would give you the comfort? It's you guys who are going to have to live with the results of this.
President, Fisheries Council of Canada
Maybe I'll address that a little bit.
As Mr. Poirier said, I think we would prefer a fixed review over a sunset clause for a transitional agreement. Our focus in the short term has been that a rollover agreement of CETA would certainly be preferable to not having something. Also, as witnesses and stakeholders for the sectors we represent, it comes upon all of us to some degree to keep the government accountable, both in terms of making this a transitional agreement and of your own individual roles as opposition.
Liberal
November 27th, 2020 / 2:30 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I'm going to have to preface my questions with a response to my Conservative colleague, who just now implied that somehow the government has dropped the ball. It's quite the contrary, Madam Chair. In fact, if we had rushed to make a deal with the United Kingdom, the industries represented by the witnesses before us would have been severely impacted by concessions that we could have made, but have refused to make. Instead, we got a good deal. We are actually one of the first countries in the world to have successfully concluded such a deal with the United Kingdom.
I will move on to questions if I may.
Mr. Gobeil, I also want to thank you for your statement and your remarks. Just a few hours ago, I had the privilege of answering questions during question period in the House. I explained to my colleagues that we have defended the supply management system tooth and nail and that not a single ounce more cheese will be coming into Canada under this transitional agreement with the United Kingdom.
I am wholeheartedly behind you and your industry. I hear you when you say that we must not only protect and defend the supply management system, but also promote it. Can you tell us how we can work together to promote our dairy farmers, to work hand in hand with you to identify other markets, or, again, to promote the industry here in Canada?
President, Les Producteurs de lait du Québec
Thank you, Ms. Bendayan. These are very good comments.
I talked about promoting the supply management system. As you know and as the federal government knows, this is done through innovation and research, and we need to take advantage of that to find new opportunities, because our consumers are on the lookout for new products.
You know, there are a lot of markets for butterfat, but there are also a lot of structural surpluses for non-fat milk solids. The various agreements—I'm thinking of the last one with the Americans, for example—have put the country at a disadvantage, as you've said.
We need to help producers and processors find new opportunities and value-added markets. This can be in animal production, for example, for dog and cat food. I'm also thinking about the market for baby formula. We need to find Canadian value-added markets.
I think we have a high quality product, and we have very strong values when it comes to the environment. We stand out around the world with our products, even on the Canadian scene. I'm not talking about a world price product, but a value-added product.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
Of course. Thank you very much, Mr. Gobeil.
If I still have a few moments left, I will ask a question of Mr. Poirier with the Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters.
Thank you very much for bringing forward some concrete solutions that my colleague, Mr. Sheehan, already raised briefly with you. One of the other suggestions you made was with respect to bridging our export development agencies and other government institutions with business trade associations such as yours and others.
If you do have direct contact with EDC and our trade commissioner service, I am wondering how that relationship is going and how it is that our government can continue to support you to make sure that our small and medium-sized businesses and manufacturers right across the country are able to do the scale up and growth that is required to compete more effectively internationally.
Director, Trade Policy, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters
We do have excellent working relationships with all of the major agencies. In fact, at certain periods in time, we've shared office spaces together to try to bridge those gaps. The problem we kept running into is that even though those partnerships were well-intentioned, it's still a bureaucrat knocking on the door of a company and saying, “I'm from the government and I'm here to help”. The idea arose that it would be more efficient and effective to have the trade associations do that among others.
That's the route that we see. The government has certainly already gone down this road with their partnerships with the Toronto Region Board of Trade and other organizations. It would just be to expand that model and give it to more people. Within that, you can build in that mentorship piece that I spoke to as well.
It's basically leveraging us and our tens of thousands of members as a channel and a pipeline into the government agencies.
Liberal
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I want to counter the previous member's comments on the perception of this being rushing through. I just want to remind everyone that this government pulled out of negotiations in March 2019, only to re-engage again this summer. We also had the Prime Minister making comments that the United Kingdom didn't have the “bandwidth” to be negotiating, and who then also insinuated that their negotiating team was out of practice, which isn't overly helpful, you would think, during negotiations. All the while, over 20 other countries were able to sign agreements during this time. We'll just put that on record to put the conversation into context.
I do have a question for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association.
You mentioned that you are disappointed if this is the final agreement that exists for the long term. I was wondering about this. In some of the conversations you've had, was it your perception that there was going to be a simple rollover? Was that always the perception?
We've heard that the government has been working on this for three years. Over that time, was it your understanding that it was going to be a simple rollover and there were going to be no changes? Or was there a point in time when there seemed to be a shift into saying “we're not going to be making any changes and we're going to roll over with the same agreement”?
Director, International and Government Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
Yes, and some of that, I guess, would be from my colleague previously, John Masswohl, who would perhaps have some more context on that. We can get back to you, but I think there was a discussion about what this could look like in a number of different avenues, whether it was an FTA or there was continuity later on. I don't have a lot of detail there for you.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Okay.
There was another part there where you said that you would “look for broader consultation”. What does that look like as we move forward with other recommendations going into negotiations for a long-term trade deal?
Director, International and Government Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
I think we would anticipate—and maybe others have further comments—a full consultation process that would normally go along with free trade agreements.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Great. Thank you, because we've heard—unless you can advise us otherwise, Ms. Jackson—that there weren't round table discussions and this real extensive outreach.
Director, International and Government Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
I think it was different from previous FTA consultations, but to be fair, we were engaged regularly.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you very much.
I did have a question for Mr. Poirier. You were talking about the administrative burden. We have heard from other witnesses who were talking about uncertainty right now and not knowing even from a paperwork perspective what might be moving forward. Is all the paperwork the same, even with customs brokers or with businesses doing different types of work?
Can you maybe speak to that? Is that something you're hearing? Are you hearing concerns about what is the paperwork and what is the administrative work that we have to do within literally a few weeks?
Director, Trade Policy, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters
Yes, absolutely. It's a good point. When you get down into the weeds, you start to see all those sorts of implications running up. The cumulative effect of all of them is that it means major costs and a slowing of trade. Even if we get that transitional agreement, there are still going to be adaptations and changes that have to be made.
Most SMEs rely on customs brokers and agencies, so there's help there, but still, if they're going it alone and they have to navigate all these waters, it's all-consuming and, like I said, there are bandwidth issues because of COVID.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Also, for you, is your industry working on estimating what some of the costs might be, depending on...? We've also heard, too, with regard to this agreement, that it's not just a copy-and-paste one, so there might be some tariffs. We don't know what they are or where they might be. Have you done any analysis as to what that might look like and, first of all, if it's exactly the same, and second, if there are some other tariffs that are added on and how that might affect your various industries?
Director, Trade Policy, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters
No. There are no measures yet simply because there are too many variables that are unknown to be able to measure it to any reliable extent. Certainly, in my remarks, it wasn't to be cute. It was to say that by not having the transitional agreement, the costs would be bad, because you can assume that it will be without knowing what the details are going to be.
