International Trade Committee on Nov. 30th, 2020

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Okay, but if either party declined to come to the table, there would be no penalty and this agreement would continue indefinitely. Is that correct?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

I think what we want to do here is to begin negotiations and do that within a year. Both sides, in good faith, want to commit to concluding them in three years. I think both countries recognize how important we are as trading partners and as allies, and we're both very committed to doing this. The conclusion of this transitional agreement, I think, is a good step in that direction.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

But it is possible, after doing some negotiating, that if either party decided that the terms of the so-called transitional agreement were better for them, they could decline to sign a new agreement and this agreement would continue indefinitely. Is that fair to say?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Well, I don't want to prejudge the future.

What I do want to do, though, is take a very positive step based on what we have right now with the continuity agreement, which is good predictability and stability, and then begin those negotiations within a year, engaging our very good businesses and Canadians across the country on what's important, and to reach for those ambitions that both the U.K. and Canada have already expressed as important These include better access for our women entrepreneurs and our small and medium-sized businesses and high standards for the environment, preserving those good standards, those high standards, that are already within CETA on both labour and the environment.

We've indicated what's important, and I'm looking forward to pursuing that work with our U.K. colleagues.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

One of the things I've been puzzling over that you might be able to help me and the committee with is just what is this kind of agreement? It's a nuanced difference, a transitional trade agreement that largely copies the provisions of an existing comprehensive trade agreement. It has no expiry date. How is that different from a trade agreement, full stop?

We have a transitional agreement. It has no expiry date. It covers all of the same ground as a permanent trade agreement on the one hand, and we're being told that that's a different thing than a trade agreement, full stop, on the other hand.

What really is the difference between a transitional agreement that never ends and a trade agreement?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Well, this continuity agreement provides.... What we sought to do was to get an agreement with the United Kingdom as they were leaving the European Union, as they were exiting. The U.K., of course, is a part of CETA, and we want to make sure that we have an agreement that preserves the terms of CETA for our Canadian businesses.

At the same time, Canada and the U.K. have a bilateral relationship, so while on the one hand we are preserving what we have already entered into while the U.K. was in the EU with CETA, we do want to be able to pursue a bilateral agreement between our two countries, which will of course necessarily take time for us to talk to Canadians and the Canadian people and businesses as we pursue that FTA.

Absolutely, we want to begin that work. Absolutely, we want to conclude a bilateral agreement with the U.K., but I think what I've heard from businesses and Canadians is that certainty and predictability are absolutely important at this particular stage. They want to make sure that as the U.K. leaves the EU, there is predictability and certainty around the terms of CETA. Then we will do the necessary work between the two countries to get to a comprehensive bilateral agreement.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Minister.

We'll go on to Mr. Lobb for five minutes.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here today.

Last week, we were told the deal would take two to four weeks to firm up and to be ready to present to Parliament. Last week was a week. I'm just curious. How much progress was made last week on the deal with regard to ratifying it?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Well, I think a lot of progress has been made, because Canada and the U.K. have come to an arrangement. We have come to a deal—

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Just hold on now.

Just hold on now. I know that, but last week we were told that it would take two to four weeks. I'm just curious: last week was a week, so if we say two weeks, how much progress was made last week? Did we make any progress last week on firming up the deal?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

I think progress was made. My officials have said to me that good work has taken place in the U.K. and Canada on reviewing and finalizing the legal text, so yes, progress was made.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Okay. That's good to know.

There's another question that I just cannot calculate in my head, and maybe that has to do with me and nobody else. If we were at a CETA rollover and we began negotiations.... When you see what the texts or the news releases were in March, was your or your office's initial goal, and that of the Prime Minister's Office, to roll over CETA? Whose idea was that? Was that the Prime Minister's? Was it yours? Was it Boris Johnson's? I'm just curious to hear whose idea that was.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Well, let me take colleagues back to 2017—

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

We don't have time for that. I'm just curious about March. It said that in March the negotiations kicked off. I'd like to know what happened in March. Was that a rollover or were we originally going to try to do a different deal?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

We were always going to make sure that we provided stability and predictability for Canadian businesses as the United Kingdom was getting ready to exit the European Union.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Okay. If that were the case—and basically what we've heard is that maybe it isn't word for word, but basically it was—why from March until now did it take so long...? I understand the WTO thing. I understand they walked away. Really, if it's the same deal—and you've said “predictability” about 13 or 20 times—why wouldn't we just do it earlier and have it off the table so that it could already be before the House?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Well, in all our of work—in all of it—we seek to do it in the best interests of Canadians and to make sure that Canadian interests are at the very, very top.

It was June this year when the United Kingdom announced they were not going to extend membership in, but to leave, the European Union. It was in that context that both Secretary Truss and I decided that we would re-enter negotiations so that we could get a deal that would provide continuity for businesses in both of our countries. But the underlying premise, every single time without fail, is that I will do things—we will do things—in the best interests of Canadian businesses—always.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

That is exceptional.

I have one more question for you. In your discussions with the U.K. minister, did he ever say to you, “Geez, Minister Ng, we don't have the bandwidth to do this deal. We just simply do not have the bandwidth to get this deal done right away.” Did he ever say that to you?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

I would say that Secretary Truss—and Secretary Truss is a she—and I have had several conversations leading up to what we now have, which is a concluding of this continuity agreement. We had both committed to work hard to make sure that we bring stability to our businesses on both sides of the Atlantic.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

She never mentioned anything about bandwidth. Okay.

I think I probably have time for one question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Make it a short question, Mr. Lobb.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thank you.

Concerning the Senate and our Senate colleagues, because of the schedule of the House, we are up against a tight timeline, and because of our Parliament, we need to have the Senate involved with any ratification of your bill. Have you had discussions with all the Senate House leaders on a timetable, and have you asked them for a commitment to work until the eleventh hour to pass this bill? Have you had any discussions with the leadership?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

My officials have begun. I have not yet, but I absolutely intend to. I want to make sure that I start here with my colleagues in the House of Commons, so that we are doing this necessary work.

I will make sure that we follow both the cabinet and the parliamentary process, but there is no question we will be engaging our senatorial colleagues.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thanks, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

We will move on to Mr. Sheehan for five minutes.